Article: Mythic Lovers on a Grand Scale

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I’ve never written about a television show before this, but Castle is a real gem. The principles are almost mythic in their relationship, which is heading in the right direction. Both Beckett and Castle can be role models for today’s society. She’s at the top of her game as a cop. She has beauty, brains, education and is heroic. He’s at the top of his game as a successful writer and father. He’s handsome, charming, urbane and inspirational for Beckett.

The timing for their becoming lovers is excellent and the product of good and sensitive writers and creators. I once took a short story writing class from Robert Kirsch who said while writing a mystery book he wanted to kill off a female character but instead, fell in love with her and couldn’t off her. I think these writers have done the same with Beckett and Castle. They’ve created real people with real problems. Both are extremely attractive, funny, talented, playful, intelligent, and most important, seriously sexually attracted to each other, which makes this show adult and so unlike what’s mostly on television. I think Castle fans would love to know these characters in real life because they’re so well drawn and portrayed.

Beckett and Castle have come to this place by dropping an extraordinary amount of baggage with a lot more to drop. Her childish obsession with solving her mother’s murder, she foolishly almost gets herself killed. Her would be assassin is bigger and stronger than she so she doesn’t have a prayer of beating him a physical fight as she discovers on the rooftop. She has to make some difficult choices, resign from the force, which she’ll rescind, or if not, she’ll go to law school and get a job as an ADA in the DA’s office. In any event she has to abandon her monomaniacal obsession of solving the murder and the attempt on her life. If she stays a cop, she’ll have to realize she’s not superwoman. She’ll work within the department and step down, leaving the major investigation in Captain Gates’ capable hands. Perhaps most important of all, she accepts herself as an adult passionate vulnerable woman with strong sexual yearnings for Castle. Gone is her fear of being just another notch on his conquest list. His multiple failed marriages and abundant floozies have spooked her. She’ll have to trust herself and him to see where this love affair goes.

Castle carries different baggage. He has trust issues as well as a need to grow up without losing his playfulness. He can tell Beckett his feelings, which is always hard but he can’t trust her enough to tell her what he knows about her mother’s murder; instead, he treats her like a child much as he treats his daughter. His fear of women growing into womanhood stifles his relationship with them. Yes, he’s attractive and rich and has no problem getting women for one-night stands or two failed marriages. He has to let Alexis go and grow up. He has to see Beckett as his equal in every way. He has to grow into a man who can love and protect women without smothering them. He has to accept the maturing women in his life.

Castle and Beckett can go as they are and still go about their business, have a grand romance and that’s that. They can continue to solve murders and enjoy their repartee. They could also experience some maturing, go about their business, solve murders, and become mythic lovers on a grand scale. Whatever their creators want to do with such interesting characters they’ll do and Castle fans will be happy.


  1. Judy says

    Great analysis! I love this show, too. These characters are so real. Best-written show ever.

    • Elsa Renee Celniker says

      Judy, I think Castle is the best series since I, Claudius and that says a lot.

  2. linlee says

    A well written article about our “mythic” lovers. I, like you, do not fall into the demographic group that networks and advertisers seem to cater to. However, I do like well written TV shows that have humor, romance and mystery enveloping them. I’ve been hooked on Castle since the very beginning and love the articles posted by alll who have a knack for expressing the very things that run through my mind. Thanks so much and hope to hear more from you.

    • Elsa Renee Celniker says

      Linlee, Unlike you, I started Castle in the middle of the second season and am eager to see the TNT replays off the first season.

  3. southerngirl says

    I too really enjoyed this article! Like linlee, I don’t fall into the sought-after demographic group. I agree that the writing is what stands out and makes Castle special. Also, the ensemble cast is excellent. Sadly, television for the most part has become just a vast wasteland (hasn’t this description been used before?) of so-called ‘reality’ shows (which in truth are anything but) and trashy, one-line, in poor taste comedies with agendas that are audacious and filled with transparent political and sexual innuendos. I enjoy shows with an actual plot and protagonists who make me want to root for them. They aren’t perfect characters, yet they are worthy folks deserving of our respect and continued interest. It’s no surprise that the married lead writers are fans of the great films of the 1930’s and 1940’s. These movies incorporated comedy and drama with romance; and, those writers, directors, and actors touched the inner emotions of the viewers. This should not be unexpected considering the popularity of TCM and the long enduring movies of yesteryear. After all, it wasn’t called the ‘golden age’ for nothing. So kudos to Andrew Marlowe et al for giving us the breath of fresh air called Castle!

  4. Phillip says

    I’m no student of theology (truth to tell I’m not even that devout) but reading your commentary on the character of Richard Castle brought to mind that famous passage from the letter Paul of Tarsus wrote to the school at Corinth: “When I was a child I spake as a child, I understood and thought as a child, but when I became a man I put away childish things.” (I Corinthians 13:11)

    Richard Castle is very much an arrested adolescent, making it all the more remarkable that he has kept his hedonism sufficiently in check to be a dutiful son to Martha and responsible single dad to Alexis. And now he is entering into perhaps the first “adult” relationship of his life, with a woman who touches him on a level no other woman ever has. To prove himself truly worthy of Beckett he must close the door forever on his protracted childhood. (No more cavorting with scarcely clad models to promote his latest bestseller) And since Detective Beckett is also a woman with a price on her head, he will have to be protective of her, to fight for her life if need be, without crushing her fiercely independent spirit. Castle has already shown himself capable of being a good parent; I believe him equally capable of putting away childish things and becoming the man Kate needs and wants and deserves.

    • Elsa Renee Celniker says

      Phillip, Some people never grow up and remain charming and fun and interesting. We’ll have to wait see what the writers do. I would love to see them grow up.

    • TracyLee55 says

      I agree Phillip.

      If Rick had not shown the grownup man that he is, Kate would have dismissed him a very long time ago despite the sexual attraction. But after 4 yrs there is more than just the “sexual” attraction. They are attracted to each other on a much deep level. Kate has seen the father in Rick, and the son. She has seen him willing to risk it all for those he loves. I also believes she would want him to keep a little bit of the fun boy in him, because he would not be Rick without it. He sees in Kate an “extraordinary” woman, a woman, not a girl, not a playboy bunnie, not a bimbo. But a woman, a remarkable, maddening, challenging, frustrating woman who is smart, compassionate, who is also a great cop. She awakened the real man in him, he awakened in her the desire to be more than the avenger, but a woman who is capable of truly being loved and returning that love.

      • Phillip says

        On reflection, I would not want Castle to lose his sense of whimsy and irreverence either. But the days of walking into an A List Manhattan soiree and having every woman present hanging all over him are now a closed chapter in his life. He honors and cherishes Kate enough to know this without being told.

        • TracyLee55 says

          Well said Phillip.
          Yes that Rick Castle is gone. Even in “The Limey’ (my least favorite), when Rick shows up with the blond flight attendant, and tries to revert back to the old Rick, it felt so cheap and inauthentic. I think even Rick knew he was being an ass (as it were), despite his being hurt and wanting to hurt back. At the end of Headhunters and Undead Again, Rick knew he cheapen himself not just to his friends and especially to Kate, also in his own eyes.

          Yes, keep the whimsy & irreverence, a little bit of the “9 year old on a sugar rush”, that is after all, part of who Rick is, and what we love about him. But he has grown up now, and he and Kate can have a wonderful mature, loving and fun relationship. Kate too has a great sense of humor. She is not always Rick’s “straight man” (or woman).

          • Phillip says

            After seeing the previews I couldn’t bring myself to watch “The Limey.” It struck me as so contrived, so “hey kids, let’s throw another obstacle in their path.” I know, they had to maintain the ongoing narrative in the lead-up to “Always” but it still felt–what’s the word I’m looking for–inorganic?

          • Beckstle says

            I hated Rick in the Limey – but I understood it. Since he jumped to the conclusion that Beckett wasn’t interested in him romantically (not getting into THAT) he set out to prove he was still desirable and drown his sorrows. It’s somewhat similar to what he did at the end of season two. He can’t have Beckett, so he goes and hooks up with his blonde ex-wife. He WAS trying too hard though, because it isn’t really who he is anymore – and it showed. I thought that played very well. (The ones I couldn’t stand was Beholder. THAT made NO sense at all. Not the kiss thing, the entire opening when he meets Ms. Kaye, on a case, with Kate. He and Kate aren’t fighting, they’d had the swing talk, WHAT was that? HeartBreak Hotel – same thing. Go run off with the guys to oogle women in Atlantic city? What!?)

          • Shena says

            That was boys thinking with their… errr…. pants. Sometimes it speaks louder than their hearts and their brains. However, the nice thing is that it never lasts. All men go through this — some act on it, some don’t, and some just act up. That’s what Castle was doing.

          • Beckstle says

            The thing is about contrived moments. The Limey had real context for Rick’s behavior. Both Beholder & HeartBreak Hotel had the changes in behavior come out of nowhere. Especially HeartBreak Hotel which happens directly after Cops & Robbers. Likewise, Beholder is right after HeadCase, where Kate has been positive – to Castle’s surprise – about the whole love & romance thing, openly flirts with him, and he expresses disgust about “co-eds gone crazy.” Sure, boys will be boys, but in terms of storytelling and the excellence that Castle usually has in putting the pieces together, those two episodes just didn’t track for me – whereas The Limey absolutely did.

    • Micro says

      I’m glad to hear I was not alone in finding “The Limey” unsettling. I haven’t been able to re-watch that particular episode because I just find it too upsetting. Sure Castle is hurting and who can blame him. But showing up with a blonde bimbo made him look like a complete ass. Similarly, no matter how justified she may have been, to see Kate calling Inspector Hunt back to accept his invitation for drinks, was just gut-wrenching. It made them both look like they were being unfaithful to each other.

      I know the dramatic effect Marlowe was attempting to achieve here, but I thought this could have been portrayed in a manner less damaging to their characters and certainly didn’t need to stretch across 4 episodes.

      Rick was obviously very upset about something and Kate knew it. Given their close relationship and feelings for one another, I thought Kate should have tried a little harder to find out what was eating at him (and/or Castle should have manned up and confronted her). She is afterall an “extraordinary” detective, right? Not only did this not happen, but the way ABC aired the episodes (i.e. gaps between episodes), it had viewers waiting over a month for a resolution to all this angst.

      I know the writer’s intent was to maximize the “ebb and flo” thing between Castle and Beckett, in order to make “Always” that much more gratifying. Artistic merit aside, the duration and intensity of this darkness surrounding the main characters, detracted from what should have otherwise been entertaining storylines. From the final scenes of “47 Seconds” through to the mid-point of “Undead Again”, the audience was so upset by the emotional turmoil surrounding Castle and Beckett, that the enjoyment of these episodes was lost. Its analogous to trying to get the full enjoyment out of a banana split after someone garnishes it with vinegar. I’m just glad all the angst is behind us now and they can get back to the fun story telling.

      • Beckstle says

        It’s interesting that you used the term “unfaithful” to each other, since they weren’t actually together to begin with. It reminds me of them, “Gyrating Jenny” issue in the Ryan’s Wedding episode. Castle & Beckett are freaking out when they find out she slept with their victim early in her relationship with Ryan. When they tell Ryan he laughs because he already knew about it. Furthermore he doesn’t see the big deal, as. They’d only been going out a couple of months. As he put it, “it’s not like we were exclusive.” Castle & Beckett are NOT a couple at this point and they both think there’s not a chance they will be. Yes, Castle is being an ass. This Limey guy is being nice and appreciative of her. She calls him back for drinks because why should she sit around feeling sorry for herself when she could have a pleasant evening? It’s a pretty human reaction, and one I think if Lanie were there would wholeheartedly endorse. If my best girlfriend was being treated by the guy she likes the way Castle was treating Beckett, I’d want her to get her mind off the guy for a while. It made sense. Yes, it was an uncomfortable storyline, but it was a believable one because of how Castle found out about Kate’s secret.

        In 47 seconds, I couldn’t believe Castle jumped to conclusions the way he did and didn’t even ask Kate why she lied – until I heard from several men that watched Castle who all basically said, “yeah, that’s pretty realistic.” Apparently alot of men when hurt don’t like to look and analyze what’s happened, they withdraw and act out. It’s not until much later that they are willing to look at their behavior and situation – and then they feel kind of ashamed. In other words, as one man said, “he’s acting like a typical guy.” That really floored me, and made me appreciate that Castle is so balanced and aware of male/female perspectives and how those wires get crossed and cause conflict. (Andrew & Terri WHOO HOO!) All of the guys perspectives I read said they’d feel like Castle, that Kate was somehow stringing him along, while most women were like, why would he go there?” The situation was hard to watch, but also very engaging and I actually learned quite a bit from it.

        For me, I can handle difficult or uncomfortable. – IF it makes sense in the context of the story that’s been told. I don’t think I’m alone in that. Judging from various boards and twitter I wouldn’t say the entire audience was unhappy with that arc of stories – probably an even split. I think it had a lot to do with how a person was viewing things. If you saw the episode as a piece within the whole secrets arc it was less upsetting because it meant the storyline was finally moving forward. Having Kate’s secret out meant forward motion.

        It probably helped that I’d been reading interviews and the like from Andrew all year. I do spoilers, and that definitely made a difference in viewing. I knew that this was an arc leading to something big. What that something was was speculation: it was pretty much either they’d get together or be blown apart.

        However, I think even without spoilers it was clear that until the secrets were out they couldn’t and wouldn’t get together – or if they did then the secrets would be an excuse for them to break up. Having it come out before they were an actual couple was, for me, a hopeful sign towards them becoming a lasting couple.

        • Micro says

          Hi Beckstle:

          I agree with everything you said. Men and women absolutely view these matters differently. I am not suggesting their depicition is inaccurate, merely unsettling to watch. Similarly, I do not blame Castle or Beckett for what they did (based on what they thought was going on), I simply point out that their responses did not sit well with the majority of viewers.

          I agree, they were not in a “relationship”, but I suspect a good many viewers still felt a sense of betrayal from both of them nonetheless. Personally, when Beckett initially looked over at Castle and then turned down Inspector Hunt’s invitation for drinks, I thought “Wow, you’re awesome Kate”. In spite of the way Castle was treating her, she still took the honorable route. She then went a step further and asked Rick if they could talk. At that point I was ready to hug her. At least one of them was being mature and trying fix things between them. But then, Castle turned down the invitation to talk, so she calls Inspector Hunt back and accepts his invitation. Again, I can’t blame her for doing so, but it still bothered me when she did.

          The main point of my initial thread was more of an expression of viewer satisfaction and episode quality rather than any expression of artistic merit or pertinence to the story arc. If you remove the dark cloud of angst surrounding Castle and Beckett in “47 Seconds (ending)”, “The Limey”, “Headhunters” and first part of “Undead Again”, these would have been phenomenal, stand alone, episodes. One’s that I would not hesitate to re-watch. As it is, I find them difficult to re-watch because I don’t like the dark place where our favourite characters are at.

          I think a little angst goes a long way. I just thought that Marlowe sacrificed more episodes than were necessary to achieve the artistic ebb and flow needed to make the finale a success. Did I appreciate the artistic mert? Yes. Did find the final 3-4 episodes of season 4 as enjoyable to watch as the first three and a half seasons? Nope.

          • Phillip says

            Micro, reading your exchange with Beckstle was illuminating. She made some good and valid points concerning Rick’s caddish behavior, helping to put “The Limey” more in context for me. Is it understandable that Castle would rub Beckett’s nose in it by openly squiring the bimbette? Yes. Did I expect better of him? Damn right I did. As for Kate, is it conceivable that she spent the night with Detective Inspector Hunt? Here again I can accept that but it doesn’t make the thought any less discomfiting. You summed it up neatly with your comment about not caring for the “dark place” our hero and heroine found themselves in.

            If I have one critique of Season 4 as a whole it’s that the writers danced close to the precipice once too often for my comfort level. I suspect they picked up enough negative feedback from the fanbase not to make that mistake again, hence AWM’s commitment that Season 5 will return “Castle” to its roots: two smart, appealing people who were destined to be together, solving homicides and falling in love.

          • Micro says

            Following the above discussions regarding the darkness hanging over our hero and heroine in episodes 20-22, I decided to take a look to see whether my feelings regarding this season’s angst were limited to just myself. What I discovered was surprisingly reassuring.

            Rating an entire episode is somewhat subjective because it is composed of a compilation of scenes. Some good, some bad. If you want to know what particular scenes are favored by the masses, what better venue could there be than YouTube? So I did a YouTube search for the top 3, most viewed, scenes of each individual episode of Season 4.

            In general, I found that any episode where Castle and Beckett display any kind of affection for one another (e.g. hand-holding, shoulder bumps, kissing), ranked high in number of views. Episodes where there was any kind of darkness surrounding our hero and heroine, ranked quite low.

            The undisputed favorite scene was obviously the Rick-Kate hookup in Always. It accounted for 16.6% of the total views of the 69 scene sample group of Season 4 that I reviewed. A distant second was Once Upon a Crime (Rick-Kate hand-holding scene) at 11.5%. From there it drops off considerably. Considering that 47 Seconds marked the beginning of the “angsty era” of Season 4, I expected it to rank lower than it did. Upon looking at what people were viewing, things became clearer. This episode was actually a very good story…..up until the point where Kate’s secret came out. The segments that people were viewing from this episode were predominately the scenes where Kate and Rick appear to be on the verge of telling each other how they feel about each other, but are interrupted both times (of course). These views elevated 47 Seconds to third place at 5.6%. Take away those 2 scenes and this episodes rankings drop like the proverbial rock.

            “The Limey” ranked 19th out of 23 episodes (at 2.5%). If Kate hadn’t shown up in that smokin’ hot black dress, this episode would have fallen to near zero. Rounding out the “Angsty Era” episodes were Headhunters at 3.1% and Undead Again at 3.4%. These episodes were buoyed by Adam Baldwin and the semi-reconciliation between Castle and Beckett, respectively. Even still, viewership was relatively low.

            Another oddity I found interesting was the results for the two-parter. Part 1 (Pandora) ranked 22nd while Part 2 (Linchpin) ranked 5th. Upon closer review I realized the reason. Sophia created tension between Kate and Rick that viewers clearly didn’t enjoy. In the conclusion (Linchpin), the end scene where Rick says some very complimentary things about Kate and then, as they leave, Kate gives Rick an affectionate shoulder bump. This appeared to be the reason for the difference in ratings by YouTube viewers.

            All of this information only serves to support what so many of us have already expressed in our recent posts. Castle fans watch the show because it is an upbeat “feel good” show. If the writers deviate too far from this style, the majority of fans don’t like it. As I mentioned previously, a little angst goes a long way. As Philip mentioned in his post, “The writers danced too close to the precipice once too often in Season 4”. I agree. I accept that there is a certain amount of darkness necessary to make the episodes believable and entertaining, but the conflicts need to be tempered to a level and duration that is palatable to the audience. I also concede that the reactions by both Rick and Kate in “The Limey” were very real/typical for their respective genders. However, I think I speak for the majority when I say that fans expected better of both of them, irrespective of their justifications. Rightly or wrongly, Castle fans expect a certain level of integrity from our hero and heroine. This level is admittedly unrealistic at times, but it is what it is. At that particular moment in time, Kate and Rick did not believe a relationship with each other was in the cards, so THAT is why their responses were very “real”. However, the fans (and the writers) know that this is a transient moment. As such, it makes their respective “hookups” feel like betrayal and that they are being unfaithful to one another. Fidelity is the cornerstone of any successful relationship. Violating this covenant is something you cannot come back from. Even the implication that Kate had revenge sex with Inspector Hunt, put the show dangerously close to Philip’s precipice. If the show had gone so far as to confirm that she did, it may very well have been a sin fans of the show could never have forgiven. These two may not technically be in a relationship with each other at this point, but the fans view it differently. So I think Philip’s comment is spot on. I just hope we never venture this close to the edge again.

      • Beckstle says

        Micro, that’s a very interesting analysis, but the sample itself is faulty. YouTube videos of ANY show tend to focus on the romantic aspect of that show. Therefore, the people making those videos are prone to favoring those episodes. It is by no means an accurate measure of what the majority of viewers like about Castle.

        A better, but by no means exact way to gauge what viewers like are to look at the ratings within a series. To that end, the general trend is that the more dramatic episodes, whether with romantic overtones or not, get the higher ratings per season.

        I have no problem with the lighter “fun” episodes. One of my top alltime favorite episodes is, “The Mistress always Spanks Twice.” However, “Knockdown” is ALSO one of my favorites, and I found the argument scene compelling and illuminating.

        Ying- Yang is the symbol of perfect balance, wholeness, etc. It is half dark, half light. While I AM looking foward to more fun and loving scenes between Castle and Beckett, I sincerely hope we don’t lose the their complexities as charecters, nor would I want the cases to be all humorous and “stand alone” episodes. I want to see them work
        through those tensions. The best example of this was this seasons, “Dial M for Mayor.” They had major tension over Beckett pursuing the Mayor (Castle’s friend) as a suspect. The scene where they talk through the issue was amazing and intimate (She’s calls him “Rick” – clearly designating the issue as a personal discussion.) The one thing I would agree with is that, as they are together, there is no need for anymore third-party interference. However, the idea that these two people would not have arguments that cause some tension at times would seem unrealistic and off balance. Ying-Ying, is a panda, not a well-rounded tv show.

        • Micro says

          Hi Beckstle,

          I may not have explained myself well enough above because the “Ying-Yang” is exactly what I thought was missing through the dark, 4-episode arc. I would never argue against balance nor character development. These are the things I love most about the show. “The Mistress Always Spanks Twice” is also one of my favorite episode.

          I felt the Ying-Yang was out of balance in these 4 episodes (The Limey and Headhunter in particular) because they lingered far too long on the dark side. I suspect this may have been AM’s intent. That is, to “balance out” the euphoria (i.e. extreme light side) of the hookup in the finale. However, the audience has limits to the intensity and duration of such angst (i.e. time spent in the dark side of the Ying-Yang). I think the end of Season 4 was pushing the limits of both. Further, there are certain fundamental boundaries within each of the Ying and the Yang that, if exceeded, you cannot come back from. In my opinion, “The Limey” came dangerously close to crossing that line.

          • Beckstle says

            I think I see where the difference in viewpoint is. You are talking about the arc as being too dark, as a separate thing from the whole season. When I was watching these episodes they were the context of all that had gone on before. I’d been WAITING for the fallout of these secrets pretty much all season. So when it started happening, my reaction was, “Oh, thank God, they are finally dealing with it.” If they had resolved it in one episode I would have felt cheated because there should be some consequences to those actions. Working through them makes the relationship seem authentic and the bond stronger.

            I don’t love stand alone episodes because they usually don’t connect at all to the main thru-lines of the show. Likewise, I feel an arc should also be connected to what’s gone before it. However, if one is viewing the episodes from the viewpoint of single episodes without bringing in the information from the series as a whole I can see why the tension of the arc is

            I have noticed a general trend among my various friends of different ages. People born before Kennedy tend to prefer shows where everything wraps up at the end of an episode. They don’t like when the story carries over: a show like “Lost” is something they absolutely can’t stand. Likewise, friends born from Kennedy onward not only like the sense of connection between episodes, but find it a bit phony and unrealistic if there ISN’T a connection.
            I suspect some of the difference of opinion on the arc may stem from different sensibilities about what makes a good tv show. I myself am a Nixion baby. 😉

        • Bill - Canada says

          Hi Beckstle,

          Technically speaking, I’m a Diefenbaker baby, which would be Kennedy-ish. LOL :)

          I too like having a sense of connection between episodes, as long as the story arcs are finite. I don’t care for the shows with open-ended premises like “The Fugitive” and more recently “Star Trek Voyager”. The reason being, the very premise of the show makes them too predictable and, by extension, makes the plots anti-climactic. In “The Fugitive”, actually finding the one armed man would mean the end of the show, so you know that no matter what he does during the episode, he isn’t going to find the guy.

          As for Castle, I love the style they use. There is always a story that is solved within the single episode, but they drop you crumbs here and there about something else that is happening in the background (Babylon 5 was a good example of this style). You’ve got things like Kate’s mom’s killer, 3XK, Rick’s dad all hanging out there. I too wanted to see the story arc about secrets finally come to an end. I simply would have preferred they had not ventured so far into dark territory as to make otherwise good single episodes so upsetting to watch (or re-watch). As I’m sure you can tell, I really didn’t care for where they took these characters and how long they left them there. I thought a more poignant way to handle Kate’s secret would have been for Rick to be emotionally devastated. Have him in sink into a downward spiral of self-destruction at the thought that Kate would never return his love (which really wasn’t the case, but he didn’t know that). Making Rick appear as a sympathetic figure instead of a two-timing rat, would have made the journey to the dark side a bit softer and perhaps even have the audience rooting for him. This is actually where I thought the writers were heading when they had Rick flying off to Vegas for the weekend, bringing home a stewardess, venturing out with Slaughter (i.e. subconsciously trying to put himself into a dangerous situation and bring harm to himself) and then have a distraught Alexis come to Kate to plead for her help in bringing her dad back from the abyss.

          Overall, AM and his team are phenomenal writers and I am happy with the final outcome of the season. I’m just sorry that there will be a couple of Season 4 episodes that won’t see as much DVR time at my house.

          This has made for a great discussion though, hasn’t it?

          • Beckstle says

            The two episodes I’ll be skipping are Heartbreak Hotel and Beholder. The hardest transition for me was going from the Slaughter episode to the Zombie episode. Again, my reaction was, OMG she put everything on the line for him and he STILL doesn’t get it? What I got back was: Yeah, for Castle, what that tells him is he’s her PARTNER and FRIEND, but she doesn’t want more. It’s a wonder men and women manage to get together at all! LOL!

            Still, I did like how in Zombies how they ended up talking about what happened without technically talking about it and seeing the light dawn on Castle’s face. Maybe that is the point, that despite the ability for men and women to get their wires crossed true love will always find a way to uncross them and work things out.

            Yes, I love the discussion! Especially since there’s no Castle until September! :(

          • Phillip says

            Bill, I have a confession to make: my wife and older daughter got me interested in “Downton Abbey” to the point where I became equally frustrated with Julian Fellowes throwing one obstacle after another in the path of Matthew and Mary. (Don’t even get me started on Mr. Bates and Anna)

            Always pleased to “meet” someone who shares my appreciation for “Babylon 5.” I still rewatch that scene where Mike Stracynski, costumed as a lowly service tech, opens an access panel deep in the bowels of the now derelict station to pull the plug on his own creation. Brilliant.

            I hope to visit your lovely country one day. Quebec City is at the top of my list. I also dream of making a railfan’s pilgimage to Morant’s Curve out in Alberta. One of the most prized books in my library is a collection of Nicholas Morant’s Canadian Pacific photos.

            There were by my count 49 posts to this thread when I offered my comment on dress shirts as Morning After attire. Now we’re up to 76 or thereabouts. I had no idea this would engender such a reaction. This is tremendous fun, but I’m thinking we as a group are in serious “Caskett” withdrawl.

          • Micro says

            Hi Beckstle,

            Ya, Heartbreak Hotel wasn’t exactly a gem. I must admit, Castle made a pretty good Elvis. Ryan was hilarious in the Elvis outfit.

            I actually liked Eye of the Beholder though. I found it refreshing to see Kate so openly jealous for a change. Its funny how even strangers can see how Rick and Kate feel about each other, but it remains a mystery to the two of them. I laughed out loud when Kate came out of Serena’s hotel room and saw her and Castle kissing in the hall (Castle trying to buy Kate time to get out of the room unnoticed). Kate instinctively blurts out “Hey”. When Serena stops kissing Castle and looks over at her, Kate is scrambling trying to quickly think of a reason why she just yelled “Hey”. I also loved the scene back at the precinct immediately afterward when she won’t let Castle go in to help interrogate Serena because she says his actions at the hotel make it clear that “he” has been compromised. Then when she turns her back, Castle gestures that he wants to choke her. Too funny.

            You’re right about Headhunters. Best case scenario, she was going to get suspended and Rick still doesn’t get it? Give your head a shake Rick!

            Undead Again was great! Conversations at the hospital and precinct were both classic subtext exchanges. It makes you wonder how the hell they can be so good at subtext and still not get how much they care for one another? They really needed these last two scenes to pull them back toward the light prior to entering the finale. I just wish this enlightening sub-textual exchange had taken place one or two episodes earlier.

          • Beckstle says

            Well, Micro, if we took out Heartbreak Hotel that would be one episode earlier. Just skip it when you get the season 4 DVD’s and see if season 4 flows better. 😀

  5. Honey Apostos says

    Wonderful article. I hope the writers move forward with “they could also experience some maturing, go about their business, solve murders, and become mythic lovers on a grand scale.” But I trust these writers. Whatever they choose will be right course for the characters and the show. We are all looking forward to what comes next.

  6. Genelle says

    Great article!! Would have liked to been one of your students. My mother turned 79 today & enjoys Castle too, but thinks that I am too into it.
    I fit the demographic, I’ll be 48 in eight days, but I’ve never let ratings or reviews keep me from enjoying the programs that I watch.

  7. Baycab says

    Castle is great and grand love story! Mythic? You bet! Their love has literally been tested by fire and refined where it is pure and magical. Shades of the Velveteen Rabbit…our heroes are real!

    But, is finding those behind her Mother’s murder really a childish obsession for Kate? Her family torn apart with downward spirals for both Kate and her Father. Twelve years and therapy for Kate including a life changing career direction. Her Father numbing his grief with a bottle for years but finally clawing his way back to life out of that hell. Captain Montgomery, Kate’s mentor, dead. Kate dying but revived after being shot by a sniper. One who probably laughed at the irony of the physical location for the shot and the law enforcement presence there while making a dramatic statement and example to those who actually knew the “story” behind the funeral. Kate waiting for a year “for the other shoe to drop” and wondering why she is still alive.

    Really! At what point does this cease to be a childish obsession for Kate and become a tad personal?

    The bad guys are still out there. The bad guys are still killing people. I’ll make an assumption there were others silenced or killed because of them. At what point does it stop? When Kate is dead? If, in their shoes for a moment, I would reason that killing Kate would not be enough. Closure for them would include Mr. Smith, Castle, Ryan and Esposito, those who know more of the “story”.

    Kate is a warrior. She hunts. I don’t see revenge as a motive but justice and probably stopping a very real threat of harm to life and limb to any that “get too close” to the “dragon”.

    Kate has the same qualities as the warriors I worked with (SOCOM), with the exception of tactics that suck and not allowing others to have her six (or back). As Rick said “they’ve turned this into a war”. At some point in Season 5, I fully expect to see Kate put on her game face and gather her brethren warriors for battle out of necessity for herself and those she loves and those who love her.

    I’d also love to see Rick man up a bit as Kate’s partner/plucky sidekick and start “fixing to misbehave” in the image of CPT Malcolm Reynolds.

    • TracyLee55 says

      Well said Baycab.

      I don’t think it is a “childish obsession” either. I did disagree on that point in the article. She did let it define her and motivate her to the exclusion of others and at the expense of her own personal life. In Rick she found a true love and partner, who will stand with her, but will also keep her grounded. For Kate herself has said she no longer wants to be defined by her mother’s murder. She now realizes Love may not wait, and so she returns to Rick. But that does not mean she does not want to still see and desire for and need justice for her family. I certainly would in her shoes.

      • Shena says

        I agree with you, Tracy. I don’t think that someone trying to discover the truth about the murder of a loved one as “childish”. I think it is honourable. I doubt there is a person alive who — if a loved one’s murder / assault went unsolved — would never think about it again. On the contrary. I think this is what creates vigilantism.

        It just so happens that this incident occurred at a time in Beckett’s life when she was deciding on her career path… her future. I think her obsession is honest. It is a form of vigilantism (and she got knocked for her actions in “Always”), but she does it with a badge. (She’s just better at the game than Officer Anne Hastings).

        Is Beckett playful? Most definitely. Childish? Absolutely not.

      • Beckstle says

        I don’t think her quest is childish at all, but some of her reaction in Always could be seen that way. However, I felt Beckett’s reaction in Always had more to do with circumstances than anything else. When she revealed to Rick that she’d spent the year waiting for the other shoe to drop, for them to come after her, did anyone else think, “Damn-it, if Rick had told her before this case came up she may have actually been okay with the deal that was struck?” She’d been working on trying to let go of her mom’s case in therapy in terms of her personal/emotional needs, but that tension of waiting for someone to kill you is heavy. When the opportunity arises to to get the drop on them and get that weight off your shoulders I can see a person becoming pretty driven. Then when Rick presents the information that he’s been holding on to she feels angry and betrayed. So her bravado of “If they want a war, let them come” to me was more out of pure anger at the whole situation than anything else. I question whether she’d have taken the same approach if she’d known about the deal for a while prior to the case. Not that she wouldn’t want to investigate it, but she may have taken a different approach to it.

        • Micro says

          “Childish” or whichever other adjective you choose to use, it is still an obsession. As such, it clouds her judgement. Castle knows it, Kate’s father knows it and Montgomery knew it. This makes it difficult for them to know how to help her, because they know she is likely to react wrecklessly. Castle tried to take the high road in Knockout, only to have Kate tell him to “Get Out”. That was back when Castle only “suspected” they would be coming for her. After Mr. Smith’s initial phone call, he “knew” they would come for her. This is likely why Castle didn’t feel he could trust her to make a rational decision regarding her mother’s murder/her own shooting. It makes it difficult to know what to do.

          I do agree with Beckstle about the dark cloud hanging over Kate, waiting for the other shoe to drop. She must have been feeling the cross-hairs on her back every time she went outside. Not a nice way to live.

          Perhaps if Castle had told her about the deal, she may have gone along with it. Unfortunately, from Castle’s point of view, should he gamble on her reaction? If he guesses wrong, she’s dead. How could he live with that? He didn’t ask to be involved in this conspiracy of silence and betrayal, but once commissioned into it, he chose to err on the side of caution (i.e. not tell Beckett) and keep Kate safe. It’s difficult to find “blame” with either of them.

          All of this doesn’t matter now, of course, because the cat is out of the bag. If Maddox retrieves that damaging files being held by Smith, Kate’s toast. It is also obvious that Beckett is completely and totally out of her league against this enemy. I think that was the whole point of the fight scene on the roof with Maddox.

          The decision to fight might be academic now. If the Dragon attacks, she will be forced to fight whether she is truly capable or not. I would suggest she take a lesson from “It’s a Wonderful Life”. That is, Beckett has a lot of friends out there. She has assisted SO many other people/organizations (FBI, CIA NSA, Scotland Yard, Homeland Security), that surely some or all of them will be more than willing to stand by her in her time of need. As individuals, compared to the Dragon, they may be weak….but they are many! It’s time for Kate to call in some favours and kick some Dragon ass.

          • Beckstle says

            I do think Kate’s judgement was completely compromised in Always – again. by the set of circumstances. I’m not as convinced about Knockout. She was still pretty much working within the law at that point. Interestingly enough, the circumstances you describe about Kate being forced to fight (and I think you’re absolutely right about that season 5 direction) were similar in Knockout. Things were already in motion to kill Kate. Montgomery was setting it up to STOP them from killing her.

            The question of whether or not Castle should have risked telling her and her getting killed is an interesting one. My roommate watches TVD (no comment)
            and I walked in on a scene the girl wakes up in a pickup truck with this guy driving and she has no idea what’s going on. Turns out the guy had drugged her because he and some other guy (I don’t watch TVD, so don’t know who these people are) had a plan to get her out of town to “keep her safe.” The FIRST thing that popped into my mind was this: why is it on TV there is always some guy doing something behind a woman’s back or against her will in order to “keep her safe.”?

            Kate’s charge that Rick was treating her like a child was absolutely valid, as is what she said in Knockout. about it being “her life” to make decisions about. There does seem to be this general idea that it’s okay for a man to lie, hide the truth, hold back information, kidnap, etc, IF he’s doing it because he loves her and wants to keep her safe. It’s okay to take away her autonomy if “it’s for her own good.” This is the behavior of a parent to a child, and yes, it’s done out of love. However, adults are supposed to be free to make mistakes – even really bad ones.

            The interesting thing about this behavior of trying to keep the woman safe is that it always turns out badly. In the TVD the girl is in a horrible crash – I suspect due to the people the men were trying to protect her from. In the case of Castle, the very situation he feared happened anyway, only because of the circumstances – Beckett walking around with the fear they’d be after her any second and a lead in the case being active again – the chances of Beckett being rational were alot lower. Throw on top of it her feeling betrayed by a person she trusted (another one) and the whole thing was a lot worse then if he’d told her earlier on.

            I’m not getting into this to say this is Rick’s fault or that Beckett was justified in what she did. The lines that jumps out for me from the song “In My Veins” are, “Nothing goes as planned. Nobody is Perfect.” However, there’s been alot of talk on the boards, etc, that the mess with Maddox is all on Kate and Rick was “just trying to protect her.” I see it as a mess they co-created together.

            Finally though,, as you said, it’s all academic, because Kate is going to have to deal with these people anyway. I would also raise the question of this: was it all really a mess? Would it have been better if things had gone a different way? Say Rick had told Kate earlier and she went along with it. The break in would have happened and Kate would have ignored it. Maddox would have been able to just get the files and kill Smith. Because Kate wouldn’t be on alert, Maddox would then be able to kill Kate before anyone realized Smith was dead. Remember, in the last scene of Always, Smith says they had a deal and Maddox says, no, what you had was blackmail. The Dragon had NO INTENTION of keeping that deal. Now, because of the way things happened, both Kate and Rick are alert and aware of Maddox. Now, because of what Kate’s experienced she’s likely to have a much cooler head and as you said call in some favors….one of which may also bring up more information on Rick’s Dad….

            Castle would probably say that everything happened the way it did because of fate or destiny, or because if two people are meant to be together they can overcome any obstacle. With Always, Kate and Rick are now united to deal with the biggest obstacle of all – the people who want her dead.

            Andrew Marlowe is truly brilliant.

  8. linlee says

    I agree Baycab. Beckett is a warrior and will continue her quest along with Castle’s help. Wouldn’t it be a real twist if Capt. Gates corners Ryan in an effort to find out why he thinks Beckettt resigned in order to get to the “story” behind her obsession. We may very well see her getting involved as I think deep down she wants her top team back including Castle. The actor playing the sniper signed up for several episodes, so Andrew Marlow and his writers have something in store for us which could be a conclusion to catching the man responsible for her Mother’s murder. I hope so anyway. We’ve dealt with this for 4 years and it’s time to move on.

    • Baycab says

      I was thinking, why actually did Beckett resign? Did she realize she was no longer defined by her work and moving on? Did she realize that by going rogue she almost got herself and Esposito killed? Did she think the only way to continue the investigation was outside the Force?

      • Baycab says

        Sorry, was out shopping with the Household Six and she finished and said “let’s go”. But to continue, I thought it strange for Beckett to resign and walk out without a word to either Ryan or Esposito? We know she is smart, fierce and kind so walking out seems out of character. The look on Esposito’s face when she walked out said it all. He would go with her to hell and back yet here turns her back and walks out on her partners of four plus years? I don’t get it. I understand she’s a tad upset at Gate’s butt chewing but at least grab the guys and meet at the Old Haunt or something!

        • Beckstle says

          Beckett didn’t resign BECAUSE of being chewed out by Gates. That moment simply slapped everything into perspective for her. She’s been trying to put down her mom’s case and move to “not being defined by it” for months in therapy. Then something pops up about it at work and she starts falling into it. Then the stuff with Rick comes up and she’s mad, hurt, and defiant – goes in, breaking all kinds of rules, gets her butt kicked and nearly thrown off the roof of a rather tall building. In That moment, she realizes she could die alone, with her partner, without Rick knowing the truth of how she feels. (All I could think about was you.) Ryan shows up with Gates. At THAT point, the only thing that matters to her is Rick Castle. So when Gates is chewing her and Espisoto out and tells her to hand in her badge, which is all tied up with her mom’s case, which almost got her killed and MAY have cost her Rick, everything just clicks. She is letting it go and walking away. Being that Beckett doesn’t do anything halfway, the LAST thing she’d be doing that day would be having drinks at the Old Haunt
          with the guys. Once she walks, she’s got one thing on her mind, what a mess she’s made in her relationship with Rick Castle and is there any way to fix it. Now later on, I’m sure she’ll be dealing with the fallout with Esposito and Ryan, although, I suspect Esposito gets why she walked.

          • Phillip says

            Wow, I believe you nailed it. Beckett never does anything halfway. It’s all or nothing for this lady.

          • Shena says

            Well said, Beckstle! I saw the exact same thing! Beckett knew exactly what she was doing and why she was doing it. Some people have been saying that resigning was a passionate response that was brought on by Gates’ displeasure. I beg to differ. Like you, I think she did an awful lot of thinking between the time she was flung off the roof to the moment she ended up in Gates’ office. It was not a spur-of-the-moment decision for Kate — that’s just not in her character.

          • TracyLee55 says

            Beckstle, I agree with Phillip and Shena, You “nailed it”, and “well said”.

            When she was pulled up by Ryan on the roof, she said “Castle?” and Ryan shook his head, it was then she saw Gates. But I don’t think anything or anyone was on her mind but Rick. How many times has he saved her, thrown her down to keep her safe, jumped on the shooter, or shot at him? When she saw no “Castle”, that he wasn’t there this time, I believe it hit her again, have I lost him? I just knew it was him on the roof, but it wasn’t. So Gates chews her out, tells her she is a ‘disgrace to the uniform” which she is anything but. At another time she would have been insulted and pissed, but now, she didn’t care. (However in the elevator ride she leans over and sucks in her breath. Not in regret, but kind of “Did I really just do that?’ Then on the swing set (oblivious to the torrential rain), she reflects on the conversation in Rise: ” I can’t have the kind of relationship I want until I put this to rest”. Well now she knows at rest it must be (even though we know better), and she must seek out her ‘Castle”, tell him the truth. Is it too late?

            Kate risks calling Rick (probably calling him as she is approaching his door), he does not answer. Within minutes, she knocks on his door, not knowing how Rick will react. Her face says it all, and she ignores the anger and coldness in his eyes. For her eyes see the real Rick. And in she goes.

            She let her mother’s murder define her, propel her, be the looking glass to how she viewed the world. She finally saw (and has been seeing for a while now) what it truly has cost her, the true love she has always wanted the “One and Done” who would be there for her, and she for him, and they could “dive in this together”.

            Her mother would approve.

      • Micro says

        I’m sure all the above reasons are true, but I also wondered if it was a bit of pride as well.

        Kate wanted to speak (presumably to explain why she took the course of action she did) and but all she got out was “Sir”. Gates cut her off completely (Don’t you “Sir” me), not even giving Beckett the benefit of the doubt. This showed extreme disrespect for years of exemplary service by Beckett. Gates had Beckett and Esposito tried, convicted and sentenced without the decency of allowing either of them to explain their position. When Gates said “you don’t deserve to wear the uniform”, Beckett look indignant (i.e pissed). She probably thought “screw it, I don’t need to be working for someone who doesn’t respect me or appreciate the work I have done”.

        I don’t think Kate ever really accepted Gates anyway (she has never called her “Captain”, only “Sir”) and Gates has never given her a reason to trust her. Her cold and unyeilding demeanor is likely how she got the nickname “Iron Gates”.

        Given the number of dirty cops involved in this case, Kate could very well have been correct in her decision of not involving others (although we’ll never know for sure). That being said, going in with just the two of them was definitely wrong, so there may not have been a truly correct way to handle this situation.

        Gates is a very “by the book” person. It isn’t going to take her very long to realize what an asset Beckett’s team is to her precinct. Without the four of them, the precincts clearance rate is going to take a big time hit.

        • says

          Some very interesting and valid points in these comments and a terrific member article. I have a diificult time trying to get a feeling for Gates. When Beckett comes back to the precinct (Rise) Gates says words to the effect you made detective 6 weeks before me. When Beckett comments I didn’t know we were keeping score, Gates responds everyone keeps score, especially downtown. I feel there is a degree of jealously on Gates’ part as to the sucess that Beckett has accomplished over time. Now that Gates is in charge she is setting a “tone” in taking command (which is somewhat common) and said I don’t know how Montgomery ran this shop… etc. I think Gates is similar to Beckett in a number of ways, primarily she never does anything halfway. This is probably an oversimplification of things, but I am a simple man by nature.( I still cannot get past the thought that Gates has a search warrant prepared for Beckett’s residence to look for that additional “withheld” evidence she was railing about) . To comment about other episodes leading up to the finale I also found myself getting somewhat perturbed and being strung along. Did not care for the “Limey” episode at all, could not get past the thought of it being simply “filler” until “Always”. Phillip , TracyLee and I communicate frequently on some other threads. Phillip had stated on one that he was an “Eisenhower baby” well this is a “Truman baby” posting at this time.

          • TracyLee55 says

            I too was an Eisenhower Baby Phillip, and Steve I don’t think you are that much older than me. (hence the 55 the tag of my first and middle name).

            I felt “The Limey” a filler too, but a few scenes stood out for me. The conversation between Lanie and Kate, which by the way I wished was written longer and even more in depth. Anyway I believe with Lanie who has openly joked with her friend about how she and Castle belong together, but this time basically confronted her. Making Kate admit (in her still hidden way) that yes, she too is “Crazy about” Rick. Another scene is when Kate comes all dressed up and looking absolutely stunning for her “date” (undercover) w/Colin and Rick can’t take his eyes off her (who could?). We women to recognize true beauty when seen. And the final scene in which Kate at first rebufs Colin’s invitation for a drink, as she looks at Rick (and Colin does notice how she looked at Rick). Then Kate tries to have a talk with Rick, but he still in his hurt little boy mood, is oblivious that this is his chance to clear the air, get away from the precint and talk with Kate. I have had male friends tell me (as I read in another response) that Rick was “acting like a guy, when hurt we can do some really cheap things.” I thoght really? But then so do women. But I do pose that to you Phillip and Steve, is that a typical “Guy” reaction? I am the only girl and youngest child among brothers, so Mom and I were the only females in a household of men, and I feel I can “get” men for the most part, but Rick’s actions still puzzle me.

            I would have liked to have seen Colin and Kate get a that drink, and see the ensuing conversation. With Colin, maybe making a pass at Kate, (although he never did during the episode) and she turning him down. I don’t believe she slept with him. I would like to think that Rick did not sleep w/Blond fight attendant, but his somewhat childish behavior leads me believe he did.

            Well this all moot anyway, since we know they are entering new and uncharted territory in their continuing saga. Now on to S5. Yes, Gates is an inigma, and they have purposely written her to be opposite of Mongomery, but there is more to her than meets the eye me thinks.

  9. TracyLee55 says

    Oh and ecelniker, great article. Very well written. So another retired English teacher amongst us. If you have not already, you should check out the articles of Trueheart, another retired English teacher. I also do fit in the Network demographic, late fifties, who has appreciated Castle from day one. The evolving and maturing relationship between Kate and Rick has been wonderful to watch, and now the saga will continue on even a more intimate scale. Let Season 5 begin soon!

  10. Shena says

    If it’s a mythical story on a grand scale, we must look at the term “epic”…

    EPIC (pro: “ep-ic”) noun

    1. A long poem, typically one derived from ancient oral tradition, narrating the deeds and adventures of heroic or legendary figures

    2. The genre of such poems – romances that display intense and honest emotions

    3. A long film, book, or other work portraying heroic deeds and adventures or covering an extended period of time

    Does “Castle” fit these definitions?

    DEFINITELY! In more ways than one! Beckett’s story and the 12-year search for her mother’s killer is a heroic adventure. The love story between Beckett and Castle is so intense, true, honest, and (at many times) poetic! Castle’s efforts to tell Beckett’s story through his writing mirrors the efforts of Homer recording the heroic journey of Odysseus.

    It is one of the greatest modern love stories…. it is reflects the scope of Romeo & Juliet (and their struggle to beat the odds to be together)…

    It is an epic tale, indeed! 😀

    • Beckstle says

      Finally! I’ve been calling Castle an Epic drama for a while now and people look at me like I’m nuts. Dramedy doesn’t begin to cover the structuring Marlowe has going on. From the Oddessy to Lord of the Rings, the orignial Star Wars, Epic Drama is the structuring. It also allows for the humor of Castle in a way that what one considers “drama” does not. There are always scenes and stories within an epic that are written to be humorous; the humor doesn’t make it less of a drama.

      • southerngirl says

        I absolutely agree beckstle. Real life is full of humor as well as drama and great writing and story telling always include both. It’s so much easier to willing suspend disbelief when both are included. Entwining both olso adds hope to the scheme of things which is so essential to escape into a good story.

  11. Phillip says

    Tracy & Steve, I’m 57 coming up on 58 in August. To help put this in perspective, there were steam locomotives operating in revenue service in and out of Madison when I was a toddler. (I’m a rail buff and have a passion for trains) I retain dim memories of Lee Marvin in “M Squad” and Dale Robertson in “Wells Fargo.”

    I keep hearing the refrain “policing is a young person’s job,” but my Academy classmate Dex is 63 and still going strong. Truth is I enjoy being a gray eminence for the 20 and 30 somethings I work alongside. I take some consolation from the fact a lot of the transients I deal with, who are five to six years my junior, look at least a decade older. Must be all the cooking sherry they drink.

    Steve, given Gates’ IA background it’s entirely plausible she has a search warrant for Beckett’s apartment locked in her desk drawer. Why do I have this uneasy feeling she’ll show up on Castle’s doorstep the Morning After?

    • TracyLee55 says

      Wow Phillip, Gates showing up at Castle’s door? Now that truly would be a surprise. And seeing Kate in on of Rick’s T-Shirts too ;-}. And the idea of a search warrant for Beckett’s apartment, how very cop like of both of you.

      You know what would be a pleasant surprise? Alexis not being jealous, which is what most think (including myself) will be her first reaction. And that is plausable, she is a daddy’s girl, though not spoiled or snotty (which most teenage girls are potrayed as). She has always liked and respected Kate, she knows her father’s attraction and fondness (and maybe even suspected his love also) for Kate. And I think she suspects Kate’s same feelings for her dad. She is after all been an intern w/Lanie, and had to have gotten an inkling from Lanie, or overheard a conversation between the two friends. Anyway, I would love for her to say to Rick, “It’s about time dad” Although if she saw Kate coming out of Rick bedroom, like any teen kid: “Eewwww”. And as I have stated many times, I hope in S5 we see more Kate and Alexis moments as they to explore their mutual love for Rick and their roles and learning to care for each other too.

      I just got through watching 3XK again. I got to thinking, it would make sense for a third epi on this guy, this time maybe he coming after Rick (we already had the one where Ryan’s gun was used, the one 3XK stole, to kill a woman). I say that because, it would explore what Jerry Tyson (the real 3XK) said to Rick before disappearing into the night: “You’re drawn to death, you like to be around it because it thrills you. Now where does that come from? Your own supressed impluses? How close to death to you want to get? Huh?” I thought what a great scene! ( I want to mention to that the actor who potrays Jerry was excellent: subdued, controlled, completely deadly). As Rick tries to read/profile Jerry, when Jerry profiles Rick, you look at Rick’s face and it makes me wonder. It also put me back to the first epi with Kate while going over Rick’s fan mail “There is always a story, somthing that makes sense……”. Well we know Kate’s, what’s Rick’s? I hope we see that too in S5. Also with Jerry coming after Rick or taunting him, it would bring Kate to protecting him, especailly in the light of her now openly loving him and he her.

      I just turned 57 in April, so remember the steam engines, telphones that dialed, TV’s with antenas, the signing at Appomatax (ok, not that old, but close). But ya know, I grew up in a time where I could go outside and play until dusk, and not freak out my mom and dad. I remember recess and music programs in school. Also where if you mouthed off to an adult, let a lone a teacher or police officer, nothing was worse than facing your mom or dad when coming home. And being grounded (which I had my fair share of) meant GROUNDED! No friends, phone call, parties… nada. Being the only girl as I stated and the baby, I did get away with some stuff, especially with Dad, but I did to get the occasional swat on my rear too. Ok, I’ll stop now, just now went into a rambling essay didn’t I?

      • Phillip says

        Tracy, my expectation is that Alexis, being the sensible, mature-beyond-her-years young lady that she is, will be totally accepting of Beckett. She has long considered Kate a confidant and doubtless sees her as someone who will keep her father grounded. Above all she wants Castle to be happy. Same for Martha.

        Like Steve I have a hard time getting a read on Gates. Her character seems to have been grafted onto the Castleverse instead of being integrated with it. What function does she serve other than being needlessly antagonistic? This bizarre insistence on being addressed as “Sir” is only the start of it. I threw out the idea of her showing up the Morning After in a moment of whimsy, but the fact is Gates is neither stupid nor unobservant; she will in time realize Castle & Beckett are now lovers, so they may as well get it on the table now. As always, this presupposes Kate is brought back on board. Side note: I’m of the opinion Beckett would look much sexier in one of Castle’s dress shirts than a tee.

        True story: my colleagues Emily and Mike arrested a homeless woman on an outstanding warrant Tuesday afternoon. I assisted with transport and booking. While making an inventory of the woman’s belongings, Emily found a photo driver’s license issued to a woman named Jillian. She seemed oddly familiar, not just because she shares a name with the Brit heroine in my book, so I tracked her down by phone at her workplace. The “real” Jillian recognized my name at once and reminded me that I had taken an entry to locked auto report from her last August. Among the items stolen was her driver’s license. Before the conversation was over, she admitted that she too is an aspiring novelist. What are the odds?

        • Baycab says

          Gates keeps score and is not one I would trust. So, knowing that the guy who almost killed Beckett twice now is back and on the loose, why would she basically take away her weapon, badge and protection from the force? Seems that leaves Beckett a much easier target? Is there another agenda working here?

          • Beckstle says

            Gates didn’t expect Kate to resign. She assigned her and Esposito to desk duty. It’s just as likely that she wanted them there for their own protection as well. She didn’t just send them home.

            While I think it’s possible Gates is still IA and looking into Montgomery, I don’t feel like she’s working for the Dragon. The one piece of Gates background that struck me as interesting and important is that Gates HATES dirty cops, and it’s personal: dirty cops took down her brother. It explains her being IA and her, dare I say, obsession with following the rules. (She and Beckett may have more in common than meets the eye) She also comes from a FAMILY of cops. It could explain her sense of competition and career-climbing attitude. At any rate, she’s a character I hope to see more filled out this season.

          • Phillip says

            Gates has no people skills. That said I believe her to be honest and honorable in her own way. I find it odd that some enterprising reporter has yet to pick up on the trail of dead bodies, starting with retired detective Ragland, to say nothing of the attempted assassination of Beckett while she is eulogizing her slain captain at his funeral. This would be newsworthy even in New York. Equally odd is the apparent lack of interest from the commissioner’s office downtown. It’s almost as though the 12th exists in some bubble universe.

          • baycab says

            Sorry, administrative leave is desk duty? I assumed it meant the individual was physically absent “on leave” while something is reviewed or investigated?

    • says


      I am on the chronological enhanced richter scale with your colleague Dex but a year older. There I admitted it!! I am much like him in that I refuse to let myself slide into the “old retiree” mode that so many seem to do. I will kick and scream all the way when the time does arrive. As I stated in another post I still train and qualify ( you will understand this)
      and attempt to keep perishable skills from waning. Since retirement I have paid homage to John Moses Browning and the hundred year anniversary of one of his greatest designs. This is now my training instrument of choice, with my cherished possessions designed by Mr. Wilson and Mr. Baer.

      I agree that the dress shirt idea for Kate is highly desirable, preferably the red shirt Castle wore when he was escorting the Blonde around and acting out his … whatever he was acting out. Already into the new Wambaugh book, Harbor Nocturne, great read and is a redux of the Hollywood Station characters.( The two surfer cops are now undercover with the Vice unit and their UC car is , get ready, a ten year old white Volvo.)

      Take Care, Stay Safe.
      My regards to Dex.

      • TracyLee55 says

        Phillip and Steve, I find it so interesting that both of you prefer Kate in one of Rick’s dress shirts. I wonder that is because of your both being male, for I was going for the comfort. But…. I can see where Kate just wearing one of Rick’s dress shirts would be “sexy”.

        I am glad Steve that you still have your finger in the pie, and not going into retirment mode. I look forward to ritirement, but only if it allows me to travel, but I still have a few years to go, not many though ( I hope).

      • Beckstle says

        The red shirt he had on with the blonde? If he’s smart he’ll burn it. LOL! Kate probably has what he was wearing imprinted into her brain. While she knows Castle is with her now, I’m sure she’d rather not relive the memory of that. Maybe Castle has a different red shirt. 😉

        • says


          You are right about this one, what was I thinking?? Maybe the image of Beckett in any shirt clouded my judgement in a huge way!! I guess when guys start thinking about scenarios like this our brains go into a short circuited, totally irrational mode!!
          Try not to hold this one against me, O.K. ?? Perhaps Phillip and I think too much alike, seems we can’t help ourselves.

          Steve Q.

          • Beckstle says

            Oh, I wasn’t. Red looks great on Stana, er Beckett. Wanting Beckett at her sexy best isn’t a crime. Just not THAT shirt. 😀

  12. TracyLee55 says

    Beckstle, I agree Kate being a woman and a very astute and savvy detective, would notice every detail, including the shirt Rick was wearing when with blondessinteruptess. And Rick has a lot of shirts, as does Kate have a lot of coats/jackets (something I picked up on in these 4 seasons, she has the coolest coats.. She also wears a lot of gloves. All in all a very sharp dresser.

  13. Beckstle says

    Considering all the police work they had to do to connect Raglan to her mom’s murder, it doesn’t surprise me the news hasn’t picked up on it. For one, the evidence that makes the connection between the murders isn’t public knowledge; it was discovered by Lanie 12 years later. Montgomery’s death did make the paper – he died a hero. Kate’s shooting did also; it was on Smith’s desk. Now, that might spark some interest, but as I live in NYC, I would say it’s unlikely.

    As for downtown, part of why Kate didn’t want to involve more cops is she didn’t “know how far down this goes.” The Dragon has been shown to: have dirty cops at his disposal , ahave enough pull to have the mayor framed, and have prisoners transferred out of isolation into the main prison population. On top of that we have mith making calls to Congress to discuss the situation of Kate Beckett. I’d say the Dragon has enough pull to squelch any inquiring minds downtown at the police commissioner’s office.

    I’ll admit, I am looking forward to finding out who the heck this Dragon is!

  14. TracyLee55 says

    Phillip I agree with you as far as a good reporter would be somewhat intrigued as to (as you point out) “The trail of dead bodies, including Ragland.” But Kate’s being shot during Mongomery’s funeral was in the paper. When Mr. Smith opens all the documents that Montgomery sent him, he puts them on top of a cut out newspaper article that has a headline that says something to the effect: “Cop shot at Captain’s funeral”, and a large picture of Kate in uniform. And due to that alone, a good reporter would inquire as to why. Plus that same reporter in digging, would find out about Kate’s mom being murdered.

    I also found it odd when Kate returned to the precint after her recovery, and finding out Gates has shut the whole investigation down, she confronted Gates, and Gates responded with there were no leads and no manpower. Now this was a detective who as you pointed out was picked out for assination, plus if Gates did any homework on Beckett, (and we know she did) would know that Beckett’s mother was murdered. Now her Captain is murdered, and she is almost killed. Beckett is a fellow cop why would that not warrant manpower and keeping the case alive at least for a good year or so? And now that same lead dective is almost killed again, by the same man who shot her (as I am sure Ryan told Gates), that alone would warrant a top investigation, and I would hope concern for Beckett as well as her team and Castle too, who is intmately involved. So one does wonder about Gates. I don’t think she is in The Dragon’s circle, but…. she could have been assigned to the 12th specifically for her IA background and to keep an eye on Beckett. Whoever The Dragon is (and I hope they don’t prolong his idenity for months on end either), he would have the power to get a replacement of his choosing for Montgomery, who unbeknowst to her is his spy.

    • Beckstle says

      Tracey Lee – That is a AWESOME theory! I love it, she’s spying for the Dragon, or one of his people, but doesn’t know it. What is really cool is that it would put her under suspicion, which would keep an antagonist relationship up between the team and her. (I have to admit; when they ALL get dragged into her office, there is an element of comedy to it.) That is until SHE, in investigating Beckett’s case, finds the connection! This would result in some humble pie on both sides: Gates for being unwittingly used to support a cause she hates (corrupt cops) and Beckett for realizing Gates is a strict police chief, and a career cop, but still basically a GOOD cop. I do think Beckett does need some taming about following rules, and Gates needs to remember more about what she loved about being a cop in the first place. (The ONLY piece of interesting info in Heartbreak Hotel was how much Gates LIKED doing detective work.)

      The actress playing Gates is an excellent one and it would be great to see her given a more complex character.

      • TracyLee55 says

        Beckstle, glad you liked my theory, we shall see. I agree that Gates is a good cop. And I like your scenario of her doing some investigating herself and finds out she is being used and by a bad cop(s) nonetheless! She would not get annoyed at the spying, for that is what she did as an IA dectective. But to be used to destroy a good cop (and I believe that Gates knows in her soul that Beckett is a good cop) by crooked cops? When she finds out, no stopping that tornado! She will get to to bottom of it. Wouldn’t it be great to see her and Kate and the rest of the team go after the Dragon? For like Kate and Rick, I am sure over the years she has built up some high ranking relationships and can call in some “favors”.

        Yes, her and Beckett need to come to an understanding and mutual respect, and see each other’s side. I would love to see a more indepth epi on her too. Penny Johnson Jerald is the actress’ name and she does do an excellent job. I believe Penny would like to see her character more explored too, I have heard her say that in a few interviews. She said she knew Gates was to come in and shake things up, and she is nothing like Montgomery… or is she?

        AWM/TEM are you listening? Sept is still 3 months away.

  15. TracyLee55 says

    Beckstle, although you may have made your concensus among your different aged friends, I was born before Kennedy ( was 6 when he when he started his term), but I have never , and I mean never liked things wrapped up and tied in a neat little bow at the end of an intense or dramatic episode of any TV show. And if you read Phillip and Steve Q’s reponses, who are of my generation, they don’t either, they simply pointed out AWM may have come very close to pushing it bit too far. I enjoyed the arc in Castle played out, light, darkness, light and on. Hence the saying “It is always darkest before the dawn”.

    I don’t mind stand alone episodes, and even in those there has been some hint to the all of the characters interpersonal relationships. In S1 epi 1, when Kate and her team came upon Ahsley the Social Worker that was murdered “Flowers for your Grave”, you already knew these cops have worked together for a while, we did not need to know their back story of how they became a team. (But now, that would be a nice epi though, how did Espo, Ryan and Beckett become a team, and why Kate the lead and not the other two?) Anyway, not everything has to be pointed out what went on before, but in arcs, yes those connections must be shown and talked about. In 47 seconds and in The Limey, what bothered me was Kate saw and could feel Castle was different toward her. He was the same in the beginning of 47 seconds, then later (that day or sometime) he suddenly acted distant. Kate as a good dectective I believe would think it out: “Ok he went home with the files Gates gave him, we were fine. He comes back, leaves me a coffee on the table, but he’s not there and when he does return, he’s different. What happened in between?” She could have asked Esposito, exactly when Castle returned, and he may have told her he was there when she was interrogating the suspect. Kate then might have at least pondered that Rick may have heard her tell the suspected bomber “I remember every second”. I say all that because that would have been the connection. But she did none of those things. Yes she asked Rick once if he was ok, and he said fine. But unlike the murder investigations she does so thouroghly, she did not connect the dots. And I will concede that I may be stretching it to suspect she would do all that. (I do, if something or someone suddenly changes, I analyze it to death, trying to figure out why, but that’s me).

    So going to your point of needing the dark, yes we do. For it is in the dark we notice and appreciate the light when it comes. Whether it is a match or a flashlight, or simply opening a shade, when the light comes in, it illuminates all that surrounds us and what danger we are or could have been in, and what was “there before” us.

    • baycab says

      I also am in your demographic. I also appreciate the sweeping arc of a grand epic as in Castle, Lord of the Rings or a new series (for me) Joel Rosenbergs’s Last Jihad five-book series. Not one but two epic love stories with two main characters much like Castle and Beckett. The series connected so many dots and was so realistic that Rosenburg briefed both the State Department and the Pentagon how he put the series together.

      Much as Rick has to know the story it never made much sense that Kate did not connect the dots in and after 47 Seconds. She is wired this way to look for connections, cause and effect.

      We do need the dark to appreciate the light and that there is hope and a cause to go on. As Samwise Gamgee stated so well in the Two Towers:

      Frodo Baggins: I can’t do this Sam.

      Sam Gamgee: I know. It’s all wrong. By rights we shouldn’t even be here. But we are. It’s like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger, they were. And sometimes you didn’t want to know the end. Because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it’s only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you. That meant something, even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back, only they didn’t. They kept going. Because they were holding on to something.

      Frodo: What are we holding on to Sam?

      Sam: That there’s some good in this world, Mr. Frodo… and it’s worth fighting for.

      • Beckstle says

        Tracylee55 and baycab, the question of whether Kate should have figured out what happened is different than saying the arc shouldn’t have been as dark. I had the same thoughts myself until a friend pointed out to me that Kate’s investigative skills have always been completely absent when it comes to Castle. Other than knowing of his lustful attraction that was in the pilot, her own emotions and insecurities seem to have it near impossible to see the obvious. As Esposito said, “why do you think he’s been following you around all this time? Research?” She had NO idea of why Castle was pulling away, whereas Lanie, not even knowing the circumstances wasn’t far off – he was tired of waiting around for something to happen. Beckett couldn’t even get to THAT conclusion. So, I do think her not putting two & two together is plausible, but also feel that the question of why she didn’t is more than fair to be looking at.

        • baycab says

          Just maybe he short circuits her brain. “I believe in driving Beckett crazy.”

        • TracyLee55 says

          Beckstle, I answerd Baycab, before reading your response here.

          Yes, I understand there is a differnce in the darkness of a story arc and Kate’s oblivion, I was using it as an example. You are right in that as good as Kate is as a dective, she still is only now really realizing how much Rick cares for, loves and adores her. It has always been either Lanie or Espo nudging her toward the obvious. As it has always been Martha nudging Rick. So good point.

          But I still think she should have tried to figure it out more. And then, Rick should have tried to figure out why Kate was not truthful to him. He immediately jumped to the conclusion she was stringing him along, knowing Kate is not that type of women or person to so such a thing, although one could argue she did it withTom and possible Josh. Both of our “Hopeful Heroes” got a little lost there. Where we all do, I susppose in matters of the heart. For “The heart wants what the heart wants”, but do we listen when it is leading us down a certain path? Or as Rick and Kate did (and most of us) just ignore the quickened thumping when when the object of our (physical and emotional) desire approaches, dismiss it, because we are afraid it tells the truth?

          • Beckstle says

            Tracey, I had the EXACT same reaction to Rick jumping to the conclusion that Kate was stringing him along. I was FURIOUS. After the swing talk? All the little looks she was giving him? (some which he didn’t see, but some he did.) How about the way she acted about Sophia? I was LIVID.

            I’ve posted this before, but then on the various board I found tha5 A LOT of guys who watch Castle could see why he thought what he did and why he was behaving like an ass. Interestingly enough, they all felt he WAS acting like an ass, and felt he was going to feel pretty sheepish when he found out the truth. As such I put Castle’s behavior down to a gender difference, one that Andrew and Terri Miller saw as a common one.

      • TracyLee55 says

        Thanks Baycab,

        Especially for the quotes of one of the greatest series written: The Lord of the Rings. (I should re-read those at some point eh? It has been many, many years). Darkness for all it’s boasting is afraid of Light. Why else does it jump out of the way when the light comes in, even if ever so slowly. (And please no one give the “science” of it). We all have our dark and light side. Almost every faith in the world speaks of this. And even if one has no “faith” of any kind, one still has to concede that darkness cannot exist without the absence of light, otherwise how would it know it is different? (Me thinks I am going down a bizarre road here, so I will stop ;-} ) . But like “wise” Samgee, the Light, the good, is worth fighting for.

        I am glad that you thought the same as me concerning Kate and not connecting the dots. I wondered if there were others thinking the same.

  16. Beckstle says

    Baycab, my bad, you are correct. I focused on stripping of guns and badges, which in NYC is done for officers being investigated whether it be desk duty or administrative leave. However, I’ll still hold out hope that Gates is on the good side. She did not expect Beckett to resign, and may have her being monitored – which would fit in nicely with the idea of Gates showing up at Castle’s front door in the morning.

    Or maybe I’m just an optimist.

    • baycab says

      Storyline, I am an optimist. Who could not be with our heroes?

      Our intrepid writing team needs to do something with the character of Gates. She appears to serve no useful purpose in the show. Good or bad commit her character to something and get her involved showing her skills that took her to the rank of Captain. Make her interesting!

      A scene with Gates at Castle’s loft the next morning would be great. Especially, if Ryan and Esposito show up in time for pancakes.

  17. TracyLee55 says

    Beckstle, I actually liked “Eye of the Beholder”. I felt in that epi, it showed for the first time Kate openly showing her jealousy. Granted she’s hinted at it before, but she was really showing it in this one. Especially in a few scenes that I thought were to funny. When Rick kissed Insurance lady (to distract her from seeing Kate & Espo from exiting her hotel room) and Kate saysl “HEY!!” as in ‘get your lips and hands off my man’ “hey”. Also where Kate won’t let Rick in on the interview with her, because he has been “compromised” and he gets so frustrated that as Kate shuts the door Rick jesters like he wants to strangle Kate. I laughed out loud with that. And two more scenes. While Kate interrogates Insur. Lady (Cannot remember character’s name) she asks Kate to listen to her instincts (because she too has checked into Kate’s background and know she is a good cop) that she is not the enemy or the killer. And exactly why is she doing this? (Insur. Lady can see Kate is jealous). And finally in last scene where Kate leaves Insur. Lady and Rick alone to make a date (after Rick brings both ladies coffee) and she says to Rick: “I would ask you back to my hotel room, but like I told you before, I don’t steal what isn’t mine”…. in essence: ‘You belong to someone else, and I know it, even if you both don’t.’ The scene with Kate and her therapist is good too. “He’s supposed to be…..” Dr: “Supposed to be what?” Kate: “My partner, he’s supposed to be on my team, not all smitten”. Where her therapist poses this revealing question to Kate: “Kate are you afraid that he won’t wait for you? Or that he will?”

    So as said I actually liked the epi. Heartbreak hotel, ok, not one of my faves.

    • Beckstle says

      Oh, alot of people liked Beholder. I didn’t because for me the whole opening seemed contrived. I couldn’t get past that that since season three Castle had become alot more mature about women, turned down the opportunity to sleep with “Nikki Heat,” after the talk on the swings tells Beckett he wants to help her take down her walls, is appalled by co-eds gone crazy, was SO mature in in staying to do research and saying to not take the bait in “Kick the Ballistics” – and THEN open up with Castle, on a case with Beckett, eying the ass of a possible suspect and flirting with her and basically acting like a 12 year old boy.

      For me, this was ridiculous. While The Limey was angsty, for me it made sense, it fit with everything that had gone on. Beholder was very much, “and where the hell is this coming from?” The point of Boys will be Boys doesn’t track in a show where every piece has been done to fit in the character’s development arcs, to lay down reasons that lead to a character’s change in behavior. The ONLY reason for Beholder was to have an opportunity for Kate to be jealous and goto her shrink and talk about it. It had nothing to do with where the characters’ were in the story. I also found it horrible that Serena had to be the one to turn things down.

      I remember the line about being compromised and thinking they should BOTH be off the case because neither one was thinking clearly. Ugh!

  18. southerngirl says

    Hi Beckstle and Micro and Everyone Elsse!

    OK, I’ve decided to respond to this long and I might add very interesting conversation. I agree totally with Beckstle about ‘Eye of the Beholder’ episode. (Sorry Micro but I do agree with you on a lot of other stuff!) Castle and Beckett had appeared to be way along in their relationship with Rick promising to be at her side in finding her mom’s killer. He agreed to give her the time and space she needed to finally have the kind of relationship she wants. Yet, out of the seemingly blue, he has the strong and quite obvious attraction to another woman. He even tells Martha that he thinks she would be a great character for a book totally usurping Kate’s role as his muse. Yuk!

    In this episode, nothing had happened to upset the applecart with his relationship with Kate (as had happened in the ’47 Seconds’ episode). No, I didn’t like ‘The Limey’ either but at least Rick had a reason to revert to his childish ways by being hurt after discovering Kate’s secret.

    Back to ‘Eye of the Beholder,’ I also did not like that Serena seemed to be the one to cut the ties with Rick rather than the other way around. If she hadn’t, would Rick have slept with her and dropped his interest in Kate altogether? Hopefully not! That would indicate a terrible flaw in Rick’s character. I admit it was fun to see Kate express jealously but the way it played out would give her more reason to never be able to trust Rick. He has enough women from his past to make her fear his ability to commit without having him display childish tendencies in the present.

    In contrast, my most favorite episode of season 4 (other than ‘Always’ of course) was ‘Cops and Robbers’ because this is the one in which Kate openly acknowledged her feelings for Rick. It’s true that this was not through dialogue but with great facial expressions Stana always gives in her performances. I loved the final scene in this episode because it was obvious that Rick considered her part of his family as did Martha and Alexis and even Kate herself!

    BTW, I’m a baby boomer too and love for even the stand alone episodes to have references to the underlying arcs. So, I wish even the ‘filler’ stand alone episodes would contain these references. I believe that in real life trials and tribulations are solved over time and not everything works out in neat endings!

    • Beckstle says

      Thanks southerngirl! One thing I’ve noticed is people liked Beholder because it was funny. If Beholder had been part of season 1 or 2, or even early 3 I probably would have found it funny also. The problem with Beholder for me is that it doesn’t fit in the timeline of events, so no matter how amusing any part of it was, my basic thought was, “why is this happening now? It makes absolutely no sense.”

      • TracyLee55 says

        Beskstle & Southerngirl, Methinks you both have a point. Especially with Beholder being more acceptable in perhaps S2, (maybe even early S3). Yes I did think it was funny. But I do concede that it made Rick look like like he was reverting back to the “9 year old on a sugar rush” and playboy mentality. So indeed, though still somewhat likeing the epi, I now look at it with a different view.

        That’s what I like about these forums, whether they be article responses, like this one, or on other threads. We each carry our own poin of view and prespective, plus even our own enviorments give us each a personal looking glass as to how we view Castle. Most times we will see eye to eye, others not so much, or disagree on some points. But we are all respectful that this is our opinion and we are also open to changing said opinion.

        • baycab says

          I just do not see our hero, Castle, being actually interested in Serena. Intrigued, definitely. Checking her out, yep. As a new Muse, nope. Even with Martha encouraging him he was not willing to go there. The kiss was obviously a distraction where even Serena stated that at least SHE meant it later when all were on the same team, so to speak. I guess the question is what Castle would have done if Beckett and Esposito had safely exited the hotel room leaving the two there alone? The only irritating part is Castle asking Beckett if he should pursue it when Beckett remarked that it was obvious Serena liked him. Was he asking permission of Beckett as Nikki Heat also suggested that Beckett talk to Castle and give him the ok?

          Funny, you bet! Timeline or arc did not seem to fit. Rick reverting back? Nope, not so much as a pang of regret when she kisses him and exits stage left when Kate leaves them to go file “something”. Kate is surprised and Rick was just waiting on her to come back. “True love” to quote another love story.

          • Beckstle says

            The kiss isn’t even the issue. If they had just had that happen it would have been funny. However, the issue is Castle’s acting like the guy from season’s 1 and 2, rather than the man they developed him into through season 3 up until that point, and it’s in the beginning of the episode. Castle’s attitude towards “Nikki Heat” was less blantant and adolescent than with Ms. Kaye. The guy was ON A CASE, WITH BECKETT. That level of distractablity from a man supposedly in love with the woman he’s working with? Let me put it another way. If I had a friend trying to decide if a guy was serious about her or not and that guy was acting like Castle was in the original meeting with Serena, I would say, “No, he isn’t. He’s a skirt chaser.”

            Honestly, I just try to forget that episode even happened because it puts doubt into my mind about Castle’s feelings for Beckett. He didn’t just look, he LOOKED, and flirted, some of it with Beckett right there. When Serena gets to sit in on the meeting with them, Javier comes in and says “who’s this” Castle introduces Serena in this stupid, smarmy voice and then says, “She’s with us now” I really just wanted to smack him for being a total jackass. Luckily Javier’s reaction was also as good as a smack. Then Serena has to turn him down. What the hell? That’s not true love, that’s luck of the draw.

            If it were an earlier season it would be funny because Castle was still trying to figure out what he felt. In season 4, after the I love you, the swing talk, him noticing Kate being more open to romantic ideas (Heros & Villians, Headcase) all the talk about how he’s matured and changed that went on in “Kick the Ballistics” the Castle in Beholder felt like a reset.

            I do think some of it is the timeline thing. I see each episode in the context of the timeline that’s gone on up to that point, so when something doesn’t fit it’s just really jarring and it makes things mechanical rather than organic. Like clearly they wanted Kate to have that scene in the therapist office. I just wish they’d found a way to get her there that didn’t compromise the character development of Rick Castle. As southerngirl said, his behavior in this gives justification to Kate’s concerns about his history with women. So, yeah, I cheat and pretend it never happened.

  19. southerngirl says

    Beckstle, I agree 100%. Maybe if ‘Beholder had been broadcast after ’47 Seconds,’ it would have been easier to accept Castle’s behavior. As it wasn’t, I feel it emphasized a character flaw in his behavior. It was just way past the time for him to be ‘smitten’ with someone else. The kiss didn’t bother me as I felt he was trying to protect Kate and Exposito. What bothered me were his actions and decorum when Serena first appeared and in almost all the scenes with her and the fact that she was the one to turn him down in the end. Where was his loyalty to Kate? Does he really love Kate? Those were my questions after watching this episode.

    • Micro says

      I can see where some might think of Rick’s actions as being flirtatious, and perhaps they are a little, but I think you need to give the guy a little credit. Martha tried to push him into a date with Serena, pointing out that “Beckett has made it clear she is not available…for now”. Rick wasn’t interested. Kate even made a comment about it being obvious that Serena was attracted to him and his response to her was “So… think I should pursue it?”. Rick seemed to be wondering why Beckett would be pushing him to ask her out. On a side note, I thought it showed just how wonderful Kate really is when she told Serena that Rick wasn’t involved in their sting operation. She wanted Rick to be happy, even if it meant it wouldn’t be with her. A very touching moment (but I digress).

      Remember what Castle is like. “He’s like a 9 year old on a sugar rush”. He is easily distracted and excited by the prospect of doing covert ops, downloading neat phone apps and playing with computerized smart boards. I don’t think its much a stretch to think that his excitement in this episode was more geared toward the opportunity to hang out with a clever insurance investigator to do some undercover work and view some of the city’s seedy underbelly, than it was chasing a skirt.

      In the end, he never dated her, aside from his undercover mission to distract her so Beckett and Esposito could search her room. In “The Limey” on the other hand, THAT, to me, ventured dangerously close to “too far” for both of them. I thought Eye of the Beholder was just good fun. I love seeing Kate being jealous and trying to appear that she’s not. :)

      • Beckstle says

        Micro, your comment kind of proves my point. Beholder was “fun” and people like to see Kate jealous. As such it’s easy to downplay his actions and ignore the timeline. “A nine year old on a sugar rush” is NOT who Castle is at this point. The very episode before this Martha talks about how much he’s changed and matured because of all the concern he shows for his friends. He stays back at the precinct to do the boring research rather than get in on the excitement. That’s why I call Beholder a reset; the Castle we see in it isn’t the Castle they developed over the seasons. He’s Castle season 1. In contrast, the episode before the Limey is 47 Seconds. We know Castle is angry, felt betrayed and was determined to get over Kate. As painful as seeing the REALITY of what that looks like and how it effects him and Kate, it TOTALLY fit the situation and the characters. As such, I would take the Limey over
        Beholder in a heartbeat. I don’t have to “stretch” anything to understand the behavior in the Limey, even though Castle is being even more of a jerk in it than in Beholder. At least in the Limey there are legitimate reasons why he is acting the way he is, and his behavior triggers Kate’s. Beholder may be funny, but in terms of the story made no sense. The only way I COULD make sense of it is to say Castle is still easily distracted by other women and Kate has been right to keep her distance. However, that doesn’t fit the rest of the storyline, so like I said, I just pretend it never happened. I certainly will never watch it again.

  20. baycab says

    In the last scene Serena does not have to “turn him down”. There was nothing on the table from Rick. No initiatives on his part. She gives him a last shot at saying he doesn’t belong to someone else, he doesn’t take the bait, she kisses him on the cheek and walks off. That is the criteria I use to say he was not interested in her regardless of previous flirts.

    We had to wait until Always but at the time Beholder showed I kept remembering another line from a very strong female lead (actually an elf) that I thought applied perfectly to Beckett:

    “If you want him, come and claim him.”

    • Beckstle says

      This is for Baycab & Micro. What he tells Beckett it that he felt he had too much to lose. That isn’t about not having interest, it’s about “I thought you’d be mad if I did and I don’t want to make you mad.”

      Nor does the ending change his behavior in the beginning. Looking at the situations of “Jealous Kate” up through Beholder the differences are obvious. With Meredith and Kira the relationships are ones prior to him ever meeting Kate. With the actress what it does is validate that Castle is still a bit of a playboy – albeit a naive one (how could he NOT see the woman was playing him) and thus in the following episodes she hooks up with Demmings. Then there is Agent Shaw, and more importantly, Nikki Heat, Castle didn’t really give Beckett a reason to be jealous romatically. Kate goes there. There’s nothing FLIRTATOUS in his interactions with Shaw. He’s just excited that she’s FBI, and all the “cool toys” – Beckett takes it there. With Nikki Heat, Ryan is the one totally floored, not Castle. Beckett flips when she sees the kiss only to later find out what REALLY happened. In BEHOLDER, Rick is all other Ms. Kaye, openly flirtatious with Kate IN THE ROOM during the intial questioning, staring at Serena’s
      ass, acting smitten with her as he gets her brought in on the case. He gives Kate legitimate reasons to be jealous – especially given the talk they’d had on the swings. His later actions don’t invalidate his earlier ones. It still makes him look like a skirt chaser, a man whose head is easily turned, and not completely trustworthy. It didn’t fit with the changes that he’s gone through. (in this way Beholder is similar to Heartbreak Hotel, which also featured a more immature season 1-2 Castle.)

      Maybe it’s a guy/girl thing, but guys, let me tell ya, if you acted like Castle was when he met Ms. Kaye, and the girl you liked was with you – you would SO be in the doghouse.

      • Micro says

        Well, I’ll say this, there are certainly two points of view on this episode. Perhaps the interpretation of Rick’s actions is all in the eye of the beholder (pun intended). 😀

        I wonder if there is a much simpler explanation. Like maybe the writers were running out of ways of telling these kinds of fun stories without violating the boundaries placed on them by the objective of keeping the two of them apart until the finale. The actors and writers all seem to agree that keeping them apart was becoming artificial. “Always” should open up the storylines a little. Looking forward to it.

      • baycab says

        “Too much to lose”? Doesn’t that mean that you are worth far more to me than that skirt? The skirt is a short term pleasure, a temptation, not the long-term relationship I need with you. Can I be distracted and on sensory overload at times? Sure, but remember we’re talking about Rick Castle here.

        Is temptation a sin? Should I actually be looking or flirting? Not unless I like that doghouse! But remember, I’m a guy and incredibly stupid at times. But, I did not cross that line. Could I? Sure. Were others even pushing me in that direction? Sure. Did you not even tell me to do whatever I wanted regarding the skirt? For all intents and purposes did you not hand me off to her and walk away to file?

        So why do you think I did not?

        Could it be that I find you the most remarkable, maddening, challenging, frustrating person I’ve ever met? And, I love you, Kate!

        Note: All of the above was probably in Beholder but in heavy subtext.

  21. Beckstle says

    On writing issue I agree, Micro. I saw Beholder as a completely “move the plot forward” script that had nothing to do with where Rick really was as a character. However, they wanted Kate to have that therapy breakthrough and for whatever reason couldn’t come up with a more plausible way to do it. It was the first time I really felt that about an episode of Castle, so it was a bit of a shock. Little did I know HEARTBREAK HOTEL was coming
    up) 😀

    As you said Castle has moved them forward, something just about every show I can think since Moonlightlighting has done WAY too late. I know shows that have done ENTIRE seasons of ridiculous storylines in the name of “keeping them apart.” Show where they didn’t just reset, but REWROTE the characters in a episode, as if the prior seasons never happened . Always put Castle in the window of credibility for this love story, so ignoring an episode or two is not that big of a deal. (Just don’t ask me about them. LOL!) With Always as the finale, I am really looking forward to season five!

    • southerngirl says

      I agree that it was a writing issue – just hated the way it was handled with Rick’s character. I am also thrilled that the writers gave us ‘Always and really moved into the love story. An example of something that wasn’t handled well is the last two seasons of Bones. The story line became contrived and unbelievable. Maybe it is a gender thing. We girls want loyalty and commitment and ‘Beholder just plain lacked those elements. I’m excited about season 5 and where the writers (IMO, the best on scripted television) will take Kate and Rick and their epic love story!

      • Beckstle says

        The “Show that shall not be named” started having continuity issues early on, but the they went above and beyond that in their 100th episode and got to heights of unbelievability in their sixth season that rivaled the insanity of Moonlighting’s demise.

        Thank God Castle is nothing like THAT show.

    • Micro says

      As Beckstle mentioned above, I too prefer the jealousy originating from a place other than an actual flirtation. Agent Shaw was a perfect example. Kate was jealous, but not because of Rick being flirtatious, but of Kate having to share Rick with someone (anyone) else. By Season 4 (i.e. post-swing scene era), I think non-flirtatious jealousy should have been the only type employed, simply because of what I like to refer to as the “subtextual fidelity clause” of their relationship. As I mentioned previously, they may not be a couple at this point, but the fans know better and want them to be faithful to each other, no matter how angry they are with one another.

      • Beckstle says

        Yes, but 47 seconds made the Limey more like the aftermath of a breakup, not jealousy within a relationship. I think that’s what rmade it so painful.