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10:18 pm
January 5, 2010
OfflineMissWanderer said:
What's interesting is that it seems that Rick never cheated on them. And I hope Beckett will know that someday. That will certainly reassure her.
I also remember something he said in "Nanny McDead", about the women he met in the park, "between marriages", which means he never cheated on his wives.
Definitely when Beckett finds this out, it will change her mind about Castle a lot, since she has this impression of him as a womanizer. But to answer the original question asked, no, Beckett doesn't know why his marriages failed. I agree with Carrie's analysis, but also think his chasing after women is just part of his playful personality. We've discussed this some before, why he acts so playful and uses humor to diffuse serious situations, so I think his womanizing isn't serious, just maybe an attempt by him to keep his mind off how his marriages failed. Maybe deep down, he feels really lonely, which could also explain why he spends so much time at the precinct (besides the fact that he's in love with you-know-who).
3:11 am
June 8, 2011
OfflineHe-Touches-Things said:
I like your analysis here.
BTW, I remember a bit of grammatical guidance "Him… that's whom" He, she, who. Him, her, whom. Have I been watching Castle too much?
Nah.
Thank you, He-Touches-Things, both for approval and for grammatical quidance. [Image Can Not Be Found] I was hoping I remember it right, but my hesitations made me recall Rick's adorable Grammar-Naziness, so I decided to play on it. (I just love his rants about grammar — maybe because in Russian (my native language) I'm a passionate Grammar Nazi myself, so I can totally relate to that. [Image Can Not Be Found])
Nev827 said:
I agree with Carrie's analysis, but also think his chasing after women is just part of his playful personality. We've discussed this some before, why he acts so playful and uses humor to diffuse serious situations, so I think his womanizing isn't serious, just maybe an attempt by him to keep his mind off how his marriages failed. Maybe deep down, he feels really lonely, which could also explain why he spends so much time at the precinct (besides the fact that he's in love with you-know-who).
Yes, definitely, I also think that his attitude towards women while he was single has something to do with his failed serious romances and marriages, some kind of moral reimbursement, so to say. His first love left him, his first wife cheated on him — of course he must have felt humiliation, resentment, rejection and all those bitter emotions, and were he of more gloomy and brooding type, he may have even become a misogynist of a sort — but being a person he is, good-natured, vivacioius and light-hearted, he's chosen the way of compensation that would be most flattering for his bruised ego, and just let himself bask in women's attention to heal his wounds. I guess he's doing pretty the same thing when his wooing Beckett obviously fails — he goes for a date with "Number 3", has a fling with Ellie Monro and constantly mentions his playboy lifestyle to her partly because his ego can't help sending her this poorly hidden message: "see, you don't want me, but there are plenty other women out there who do, so there's no way I'm a petty loser just because you don't find me worthy of your attention". So for him this womanising is mostly some kind of self-consolation and self-assertion, and not a sign that he's not capable of more serious relationship. And if you noticed, as his feelings for Kate grow deeper, he's less and less proud of his past lifestyle, he stops mentioning it all the time in later series, and even when something slips off his tongue (playroom, Parisian model) he looks far more embarassed than proud, IMHO.
10:14 am
May 23, 2011
OfflineI've read all these wonderful reactions and I have some concern that some people think Castle may be a bit shallow as a character. There is most certainly more to the eye than it seems for me.
His need for attention comes from his childhood being raised by a single mom (nanny). Him being funny is more like a front for his insecurities. Growing up for a boy with nerdish tendencies must have been challenging for his character. Deflecting it with humor is a great way to deal with it.
His need for attention also is a weakness that was exploited by his first wife Meredith. Being both artists they shared some common interests. Her hurricane like character can be charming with all the attention she gives but when her attention changes to another target she leaves behind a mess. He must have been pretty upset with it because it took quite some time to find a new wife.
As to Gina I guess its hard to guess what went wrong because we didn't get to see her a lot (which is fine btw). But if I had to guess I think it would be because she is the exact opposite of Meredith. A more grounded person and shows some great care. But in the end it seemed that Castle wasn't totally ready for her because he cared more about his daughter than being a family man. He even may have been rebelling against being settled down too much to his taste.
After that breakup he went to the opposite side again and became a party animal. Partly because his old insecurities resurfaced and he needed something to compensate it with. Finding out that didn't work either he decided to quit that quite abruptly and then the opportunity presided itself to become a civilian consultant for the NYPD. Turns out that he not only is chasing this intriguing homicide cop but also find a place he feels comfortable with, has people around him that genuinely care about him and can contribute to society in a meaningful way.
12:56 pm
April 3, 2010
Offlinegrapes said:
I've read all these wonderful reactions and I have some concern that some people think Castle may be a bit shallow as a character. There is most certainly more to the eye than it seems for me.
His need for attention comes from his childhood being raised by a single mom (nanny). Him being funny is more like a front for his insecurities. Growing up for a boy with nerdish tendencies must have been challenging for his character. Deflecting it with humor is a great way to deal with it.His need for attention also is a weakness that was exploited by his first wife Meredith. Being both artists they shared some common interests. Her hurricane like character can be charming with all the attention she gives but when her attention changes to another target she leaves behind a mess. He must have been pretty upset with it because it took quite some time to find a new wife.
As to Gina I guess its hard to guess what went wrong because we didn't get to see her a lot (which is fine btw). But if I had to guess I think it would be because she is the exact opposite of Meredith. A more grounded person and shows some great care. But in the end it seemed that Castle wasn't totally ready for her because he cared more about his daughter than being a family man. He even may have been rebelling against being settled down too much to his taste.
After that breakup he went to the opposite side again and became a party animal. Partly because his old insecurities resurfaced and he needed something to compensate it with. Finding out that didn't work either he decided to quit that quite abruptly and then the opportunity presided itself to become a civilian consultant for the NYPD. Turns out that he not only is chasing this intriguing homicide cop but also find a place he feels comfortable with, has people around him that genuinely care about him and can contribute to society in a meaningful way.
I got the impression from Gina that she was too much of a 'driver' for Rick. She seemed to always be pushing him to perform, on task, on schedule. For most of the creative types I have known, that kills the creative mood pretty quickly. And with it, the romantic affection he would have initially felt would have been driven out even faster. Rick needs a 'playmate' – not a fetish model, but a person who will engage him intellectually and emotionally in his wide and varied interests and curiosities. Gina seemed to be too much of a business partner fixated only on the work at hand (his work, that is).
1:28 pm
July 14, 2011
OfflinePerhaps it's a bit far-fetched, but i think Rick developed his playboy-attitude after his break-up with Kyra (Keira?). He was clearly really in love with her, and was heart-broken when she left. So Kate would not be the only one with an emotional wall… He got himself his playboy-image that prevented him of getting in serious relationships; if you don't really love someone, a break-up doesn't hurt that much. After Kyra he seemed to rush head-over-heel in a marriage with Meredith (because she was pregnant?). I don't think he was in love with her, nor really with Gina; but it seemed "the right thing to do at the time" to marry them. He had more or less superficial relationships since Kyra, and his relationship with Gina couldn't have been that deep, as he didn't let her get close to Alexis – but: he asked Kate pretty soon if she would look after his daughter if something happened to him.
The fact he does like to have party time alone was a plot point in the two episodes where he got locked in a trailer. It was a plot point that he always called Alexis and told her he was staying over. She is smart girl and put two and two (or rather, one and one) together and explained this behavior to Ryan /Esposito, which is why they were found.[Image Can Not Be Found]
4:06 am
September 27, 2011
OfflineCarrie said:
And if you noticed, as his feelings for Kate grow deeper, he's less and less proud of his past lifestyle, he stops mentioning it all the time in later series, and even when something slips off his tongue (playroom, Parisian model) he looks far more embarassed than proud, IMHO.
Carrie, I totally agree with everything you wrote. And I've noticed too, that he doesn't want to be the playboy type anymore, so he seems a bit shy about his past.
I watched the episode where they go to the fundraiser party last night. One woman comes up to Kate and tells her something like "he's a fighter, they call him the White Wale". What was she referring to? That he's hard to catch? What for? Relationship or One night stand? I understood that he was NOT the guy to just go home with any woman. I wouldn't call a man that has been married twice "hard to catch" relationshipwise. Or did I simply completely misunderstand that whole conversation? (I was a a bit distracted, I couldn't get over Kate's horrible hair [Image Can Not Be Found])
10:33 am
June 3, 2009
OfflineHe-Touches-Things said:
grapes said:
I've read all these wonderful reactions and I have some concern that some people think Castle may be a bit shallow as a character. There is most certainly more to the eye than it seems for me.
His need for attention comes from his childhood being raised by a single mom (nanny). Him being funny is more like a front for his insecurities. Growing up for a boy with nerdish tendencies must have been challenging for his character. Deflecting it with humor is a great way to deal with it.His need for attention also is a weakness that was exploited by his first wife Meredith. Being both artists they shared some common interests. Her hurricane like character can be charming with all the attention she gives but when her attention changes to another target she leaves behind a mess. He must have been pretty upset with it because it took quite some time to find a new wife.
As to Gina I guess its hard to guess what went wrong because we didn't get to see her a lot (which is fine btw). But if I had to guess I think it would be because she is the exact opposite of Meredith. A more grounded person and shows some great care. But in the end it seemed that Castle wasn't totally ready for her because he cared more about his daughter than being a family man. He even may have been rebelling against being settled down too much to his taste.
After that breakup he went to the opposite side again and became a party animal. Partly because his old insecurities resurfaced and he needed something to compensate it with. Finding out that didn't work either he decided to quit that quite abruptly and then the opportunity presided itself to become a civilian consultant for the NYPD. Turns out that he not only is chasing this intriguing homicide cop but also find a place he feels comfortable with, has people around him that genuinely care about him and can contribute to society in a meaningful way.
I got the impression from Gina that she was too much of a 'driver' for Rick. She seemed to always be pushing him to perform, on task, on schedule. For most of the creative types I have known, that kills the creative mood pretty quickly. And with it, the romantic affection he would have initially felt would have been driven out even faster. Rick needs a 'playmate' – not a fetish model, but a person who will engage him intellectually and emotionally in his wide and varied interests and curiosities. Gina seemed to be too much of a business partner fixated only on the work at hand (his work, that is).
Exactly. Plus Gina cared much more about Rick's money than him. I still wonder why the hell he's paying her alimony if they didn't have children together?
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12:10 pm
January 23, 2011
OfflineAlimony is for spousal support – child support would be paid if Gina had a child with Castle and had custodial responsibilities.
Regarding Castle's playboy image – I wonder how much of it was a combination of Castle spending through his first book money (which I believe may have been in response to Kyra's mom's taunt that he'd never be successful) and the resultant image that he projected becoming so fabulously adept at selling more books that it was made part of his publicity. Once Richard Castle, playboy author, was created and out there selling his books, the Rick that Kyra knew got pushed aside…. until a little red-headed baby came along and tethered him back to the ground again. But too late, the image and the publicity machine that was fueling his success was already out there. So he went along with it and even took advantage of the perks (remember his conversation with Becket about liking 5 star everything, including the women too I surmise) *but* the most important part of it all was that those publicity tours and the playboy image that he wore gave him the opportunities that he really cherished – time with Alexis and time to write.
2:37 pm
January 20, 2010
Offlinebluewoodfish said:
When they were married, Gina was both his publisher and his wife. On the business side of their relationship, she had the upper hand; we can only speculate about the personal side of their relationship. It's not an absolute recipe for failure, but it can make a complicated relationship even more difficult.
If true (and i don't agree that it necessarily follows) that bodes ill for the Castle/Beckett relationship as she clearly has the upper hand in the cop/mystery solving side, and i can't see her being exactly more passive on the personal side if they ever get there. The more traditional the beliefs, the more likely it may be true – but Castle the Metrosexual and Beckett the hot homicide cop don't exactly strike me as a particularly traditional couple of people.
2:51 pm
January 16, 2011
OnlineGhostWriter said:
If true (and i don't agree that it necessarily follows) that bodes ill for the Castle/Beckett relationship as she clearly has the upper hand in the cop/mystery solving side, and i can't see her being exactly more passive on the personal side if they ever get there. The more traditional the beliefs, the more likely it may be true – but Castle the Metrosexual and Beckett the hot homicide cop don't exactly strike me as a particularly traditional couple of people.
not a traditional one but a very interesting couple I do want to see evolve on screen![Image Can Not Be Found]
3:03 pm
January 20, 2010
OfflineACF said:
Alimony is for spousal support – child support would be paid if Gina had a child with Castle and had custodial responsibilities.
Regarding Castle's playboy image – I wonder how much of it was a combination of Castle spending through his first book money (which I believe may have been in response to Kyra's mom's taunt that he'd never be successful) and the resultant image that he projected becoming so fabulously adept at selling more books that it was made part of his publicity. Once Richard Castle, playboy author, was created and out there selling his books, the Rick that Kyra knew got pushed aside…. until a little red-headed baby came along and tethered him back to the ground again. But too late, the image and the publicity machine that was fueling his success was already out there. So he went along with it and even took advantage of the perks (remember his conversation with Becket about liking 5 star everything, including the women too I surmise) *but* the most important part of it all was that those publicity tours and the playboy image that he wore gave him the opportunities that he really cherished – time with Alexis and time to write.
And alimony has a tendency to be awarded only when the spouse was dependent – which Gina would not be.
Don't underestimate the perqs of being a famous face/wealthy single man out on the social circuit – he'd have more than a few women throwing themselves at him – from the Social Register to the coatcheck attendant. Heck, his money means he'd have women throwing themselves at him even if he were married. And he'd be a VERY unusual boy not to have taken advantage of it. (I doubt he spent his time at book launches signing breasts and doing nothing more substantive with some of those women.) I have no particular problem with that – what single adults do or do not do with other consenting adults is their own business.
The more compelling problem – and the reason i think SK says Beckett needs to hear why his marriages failed (or rather that he didn't cause the failures through cheating) – is that she may still think he's an inveterate flirt and has a short attention span. She met him at a book launch party where he was signing breasts; he flirted with her almost constantly for quite a while – and with virtually every other woman they came across during the course of an investigation. He spent a fair amount of the first two seasons making references to his very active social life in Beckett's presence. He slept with his ex-wife and admitted this has happened before. Then there was Ellie Munroe plus asking out Madison. While he has committed to marriage (twice) – neither lasted very long (see short attention span worry) and the women he married are about as far from Beckett (other than being gorgeous) as it is possible to be. For someone who thinks of herself as 'more a one and done type' when it comes to marriage, this history would make him a hell of a risk.
Yeah, i know that isn't who he is now, and never was all that he was even back then – but we've seen all those scenes at home – Beckett hasn't. Hence the need for the information – preferably from someone other than Castle. Do you suppose we could get a scene with Martha when she tells Beckett his history – or maybe Gina? I'd pay to see that – and the expressions that SK makes run across her face as the information sinks in.
3:22 pm
January 20, 2010
Offlinemb said:
GhostWriter said:
If true (and i don't agree that it necessarily follows) that bodes ill for the Castle/Beckett relationship as she clearly has the upper hand in the cop/mystery solving side, and i can't see her being exactly more passive on the personal side if they ever get there. The more traditional the beliefs, the more likely it may be true – but Castle the Metrosexual and Beckett the hot homicide cop don't exactly strike me as a particularly traditional couple of people.
not a traditional one but a very interesting couple I do want to see evolve on screen![Image Can Not Be Found]
I heartily agree. My remark was a rather long winded way of disagreeing with the prior comment made about why the Gina and Castle marriage failed.
5:47 pm
January 23, 2011
OfflineGhostWriter said:
ACF said:
Alimony is for spousal support – child support would be paid if Gina had a child with Castle and had custodial responsibilities.
Regarding Castle's playboy image – I wonder how much of it was a combination of Castle spending through his first book money (which I believe may have been in response to Kyra's mom's taunt that he'd never be successful) and the resultant image that he projected becoming so fabulously adept at selling more books that it was made part of his publicity. Once Richard Castle, playboy author, was created and out there selling his books, the Rick that Kyra knew got pushed aside…. until a little red-headed baby came along and tethered him back to the ground again. But too late, the image and the publicity machine that was fueling his success was already out there. So he went along with it and even took advantage of the perks (remember his conversation with Becket about liking 5 star everything, including the women too I surmise) *but* the most important part of it all was that those publicity tours and the playboy image that he wore gave him the opportunities that he really cherished – time with Alexis and time to write.
And alimony has a tendency to be awarded only when the spouse was dependent – which Gina would not be.
Don't underestimate the perqs of being a famous face/wealthy single man out on the social circuit – he'd have more than a few women throwing themselves at him – from the Social Register to the coatcheck attendant. Heck, his money means he'd have women throwing themselves at him even if he were married. And he'd be a VERY unusual boy not to have taken advantage of it. (I doubt he spent his time at book launches signing breasts and doing nothing more substantive with some of those women.) I have no particular problem with that – what single adults do or do not do with other consenting adults is their own business.
The more compelling problem – and the reason i think SK says Beckett needs to hear why his marriages failed (or rather that he didn't cause the failures through cheating) – is that she may still think he's an inveterate flirt and has a short attention span. She met him at a book launch party where he was signing breasts; he flirted with her almost constantly for quite a while – and with virtually every other woman they came across during the course of an investigation. He spent a fair amount of the first two seasons making references to his very active social life in Beckett's presence. He slept with his ex-wife and admitted this has happened before. Then there was Ellie Munroe plus asking out Madison. While he has committed to marriage (twice) – neither lasted very long (see short attention span worry) and the women he married are about as far from Beckett (other than being gorgeous) as it is possible to be. For someone who thinks of herself as 'more a one and done type' when it comes to marriage, this history would make him a hell of a risk.
Yeah, i know that isn't who he is now, and never was all that he was even back then – but we've seen all those scenes at home – Beckett hasn't. Hence the need for the information – preferably from someone other than Castle. Do you suppose we could get a scene with Martha when she tells Beckett his history – or maybe Gina? I'd pay to see that – and the expressions that SK makes run across her face as the information sinks in.
I was merely making a distinction between alimony and child support because that seemed to be the confusion in the previous post. I'm no lawyer, but I doubt it was alimony either – I'm guessing a settlement of a percentage of assets? Or whatever the pre-nup said, if they had one… but that's another one of those picky details I really don't care about, right along with inhaler bar codes and DNA tests. All that conversation said to me is that Gina got a chunk of change out of him and that seemed to be fine with her.
As far as consenting adults, of course they can do what they want. He *was* taking advantage of those perks , I think I said that – I don't think I underestimated anything. My point was that I don't think the driving force of his life was to see how many people he slept with, whether Beckett thinks it is or not.
I too would love to see that scene with Beckett getting the skinny on Castle's wives. I think it will be awhile because she knows she has things to deal with before she can make any forward progress towards a relationship with Castle and that takes courage. When she's ready, I hope she goes on the offensive and asks for that information, if it's so important to her, because I don't see that as something anyone is going to offer up.
I guess I'm just a bit confused as to what the bar is for Castle – what will prove to Beckett that he's not going to lose interest – or more to the point, what would make her willing to take the chance that everyone takes when they jump into a relationship with both feet? And that is what makes me think that it'll end up being not *that* important. I think what will end up being important is how Beckett gets past the roadblocks she has for herself. She's not stupid and she's not without confidence and she's very observant. I think she's seen a number of things that are pluses in the Castle column, that he has the potential to be the now famous one-and-done. All these questions, these external issues, seem to be the excuses she pulls out because *she's* not ready to be in a relationship that lasts forever.
9:32 am
January 20, 2010
OfflineACF said:
I guess I'm just a bit confused as to what the bar is for Castle – what will prove to Beckett that he's not going to lose interest – or more to the point, what would make her willing to take the chance that everyone takes when they jump into a relationship with both feet? And that is what makes me think that it'll end up being not *that* important. I think what will end up being important is how Beckett gets past the roadblocks she has for herself. She's not stupid and she's not without confidence and she's very observant. I think she's seen a number of things that are pluses in the Castle column, that he has the potential to be the now famous one-and-done. All these questions, these external issues, seem to be the excuses she pulls out because *she's* not ready to be in a relationship that lasts forever.
I think you nailed it with this last sentence – she's not ready, for any one of a host of reasons or a combination thereof. What she says she wants (not to have one foot out the door; to 'dive into it' with someone) and what she has the courage to risk doing clearly aren't in alignment yet. Perhaps most importantly because she hasn't given herself permission to be happy yet while her mother's murder remains unsolved. So excuses abound – and maybe AM&Co will give us a scene with her shrink where he calls her on that tendency. The fact that Castle is about as far as you can get (other than tall) from what seems to have been her 'type' as an adult doesn't help, nor does his history. (I suspect she had a rather colourful history as a teenager too, and that may just make the whole thing more complicated.) But i agree with you that the history of why his marriages broke up is not key; knowing he didn't cheat isn't (alone) going to make her jump into it with him – it's just one more link in the chain. (Or one more brick out of the wall, if one insists on using that image that is beginning to grate on me from overuse in fanfic.)
Castle's challenge is that he's trying to catch a very rare and skittish beast who keeps almost everyone at more than arm's length. (The image that comes to mind is trying to cozy up to a unicorn without being a virgin anymore.) He needs to be a Beckett-whisperer with the patience of Job – and the promos from 4.07 seem to indicate his skills on both of those dimensions aren't quite up to the task yet.
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