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The genesis of Josh
August 29, 2011
4:01 pm
ACF
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Don’t worry, I’m not going into the newest details, but the latest spoiler coupled with the fact that I *just happened* to be rewatching season 3 and *just happened* to be watching GUN and then PUNKED got me thinking about the place Josh has in Kate’s life.  In going back I tried to think about where she was at each particular moment, because no one stays the same throughout their life.  It’s long but still may be over-simplified… just a ramble waiting for Season 4… trying to figure out where everyone is at this point in time…  [Image Can Not Be Found]

Way back in Season 1 (in THIRD), Kate talked about wanting loud, wanting fun.  At that point in her life, she was pretty much on the job most of the time.  Castle had, we assumed, reawakened her to the fact that there was a life to be had outside of the precinct.  So she goes to Lanie and talks about how she’s ready to have fun again.  There’s also a bit of an incentive for Beckett to get out there again in that episode in the form of Castle having obvious dating prospects in the form of Bachelor #3.  It’s the one time we see Kate “date” in Season 1.  By the end of the season, we hear about an old flame and see it almost rekindled although we never hear how far things go with Will during the summer between Season 1 and 2 before that relationship fizzles again.

On to Season 2 and Kate’s absent dating life, at least as far as we’re concerned.  We hear of a possible boyfriend but with Kate Beckett we never know what is truth and what is pulling Castle’s chain.  She does both equally well and we are not always let in on the joke.  Castle and Beckett grow closer as the season progresses, to the point where Beckett has let Castle in pretty close, but a chance case brings a new guy on the scene – Demming.  He’s the guy who qualifies as hunk material, complete with sparing, on the mat and, we assume, off.    The relationship progresses much to Castle’s dismay and we see Beckett pulling Castle’s chain again, seeming not to notice that Demming has changed things between them, that it’s not that funny to Castle anymore.  Three episodes later, Demming is gone, driven out by what we are lead to believe is Kate’s revelations about her feelings for Castle.  Castle goes off to the Hamptons with his second best not knowing the hurt he leaves behind, thinking Kate has what she wants. We all know how that ends, with poor timing and lack of communication and broken hearts – on screen and in front of it.

We enter Season 3 with Beckett still hurting, still we assume, single given how much emotion she puts into the fact that Castle is back.   We also assume that the summer wasn’t much fun for Beckett given the same information and the fact that she used the time to dive back down the rabbit hole and delve back into her mother’s case.  Castle is still with Gina and Beckett knows this based on her conversation in the interrogation room in AFFAIR. 

So where did Josh come from?  In HE SAID Beckett listens to Castle talking about Magic again as if he is hoping that she finds it for herself.  In GUN, we see her talking about a motorcycle and her wild child days but we also see her relive a bit of another old flame (whether they consummated it or not).  It’s taken a few cases (that we see) but Beckett seems to be getting her mojo back – she’s having fun at work again with Castle BUT she knows he is in a relationship so those feelings that almost escaped her mouth are packed tightly in a little box in her mind.  And Royce’s betrayal may even remind her of how her heart betrayed her with Castle.  That leaves us with a Beckett resembling the one in Season 1, looking to open her life up again with someone (not Castle), looking for fun (with someone – not Castle), and still attracted to “worthy” people, those with passion and drive. 

Enter Dr. Motorcycle Boy, tailor made to fulfill maybe a little bit of the wild child bike-riding days that Alexis and her scooter reminded her of in GUN.  He’s a way to go out looking for that magic – heck he’s even more custom made to be the hunky uber-ruggedly handsome hero of a romance novel than Castle.   And he’s driven and committed and talented and “worthy”.  He’s not “just” a mystery writer playboy; he’s saves people and everything! (As we her from Becket in ANATOMY) He has a career with crazy hours so he understands when she has a career with the same restraints.  It’s almost like she custom-made a box in her mind of what the perfect guy *should* be and then went out “looking” for someone (not Castle) to fill it.

But he’s not Castle, the driving force behind all of this searching.  So in the end, he won’t be all that she needs…  But it’s interesting to look back and see where Beckett’s mind may have been when she went metaphorically “looking” and how she ended up with Josh. 

It also may put in perspective the reactions we see out of Beckett and Josh as the new season progresses.

Life is a great big canvas.  Throw all the paint you can at it! ~Danny Kaye
August 29, 2011
4:32 pm
DramaWonder
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it definitely seems like Beckett is trying to find what she "thinks" she needs instead of what she really wants/needs which is Castle. Its like she's trying to find what she "thinks" is supposed to be the guy that she should be with. Instead, all those relationships ended in some sort of heartache. 

 

Its also interesting how almost every guy she dates is in some way compared to Castle. Similarities/differences whatever. Its like, if you keep comparing on the men your dating to one man in particular maybe, just maybe you should be with him! 

August 29, 2011
6:07 pm
SheTookMyCoffeeCastle
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To me, it also is a question of this "fear" she has somewhat mentioned when she said she does not think it is worth it to start a relationtship with someone who may break her heart (in mi mind, she's refering to Castle) and eventally leave.

But then again, when Castle says in  "The bubble burst soon enough" (talking about Esplaine) in POOF!, she counters with "Not if you're in it with the right person". So yes, it is truly interesting how rich and well written these characters are….she has been opening herself to new ideas, new phases in her life during and after the job. New people and new ways to tackle life and relationships.

She knows she is in for those hollow relationships that keep her "safe" from diving into what she now knows is the only worthy relationship for her…and to a certain point she has even opened her heart a bit to allowing herself or at least to think about "if only". 

in KNOCKOUT, she angrily yells at him "it is not enough anymore". It makes her angry he is making her realize once again about this relationships but also perhaps thinking she is so ready to cross that line.

 

The truth is it is really fun to speculate, analyse and hope all we want, but in the end the only thing we can do is trust the writers, producers and actors and cross our fingers (at least the shippers) so they come to their senses and be together already!!!.  [Image Can Not Be Found]  [Image Can Not Be Found]

 

August 30, 2011
3:14 am
apples22
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the thing about Josh is best summarized by Castle himself — it's Ying Ying! ….and well, that's just the name for a panda. [Image Can Not Be Found]

August 30, 2011
3:18 am
apples22
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oh, wait – i take that back. was the ying ying comment from castle about sorenson? gosh, my castle memory is fuzzy…must mean that I'm going crazy with withdrawal. In any case, Beckett and Josh are too similar. No matter how much she is annoyed at Castle, or comments about how childish he is (though he's really serious and caring when it matters!), he's the one who brings out the best in her.

August 30, 2011
4:21 am
Cayenne
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apples22 said:

oh, wait – i take that back. was the ying ying comment from castle about sorenson? gosh, my castle memory is fuzzy…must mean that I'm going crazy with withdrawal. In any case, Beckett and Josh are too similar. No matter how much she is annoyed at Castle, or comments about how childish he is (though he's really serious and caring when it matters!), he's the one who brings out the best in her.

Yeah that was about Sorenson.

And she knows that Castle brings out the best in her. Hence why she didn't object to it when Montgomery said that he knew how good Castle is for her [Image Can Not Be Found]

September 5, 2011
2:18 am
lulu12345
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Somehow I feel they should have dedicated atleast one episode ( sometime in later half of ssn 3) to josh and Becektt's relationship like they did with castle and gina (Anatomy of a murder). In this episode, they showed how their current relationship is, what are their problems now and before in their marraige. We saw how castle was with respect to this relationship. We saw Gina's side too and how she appraoched the relationship. We actually saw a human sie of Gina

They should have done the same with Josh and Beckett. They should have given them some amount of screen time to explain their relationship to the audience.

September 5, 2011
2:20 am
Leftfield
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lulu12345 said:

Somehow I feel they should have dedicated atleast one episode ( sometime in later half of ssn 3) to josh and Becektt's relationship like they did with castle and gina (Anatomy of a murder). In this episode, they showed how their current relationship is, what are their problems now and before in their marraige. We saw how castle was with respect to this relationship. We saw Gina's side too and how she appraoched the relationship. We actually saw a human sie of Gina

They should have done the same with Josh and Beckett. They should have given them some amount of screen time to explain their relationship to the audience.

We may get some of that info in the premier or in Beckett's therapy sessions.

September 5, 2011
10:35 am
ACF
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DramaWonder said:

Its also interesting how almost every guy she dates is in some way compared to Castle. Similarities/differences whatever. Its like, if you keep comparing on the men your dating to one man in particular maybe, just maybe you should be with him!

That is interesting and reminds me of the conversation she has with Demming when they break up.  He reads the situation well although on a shallow level when he says that it isn't just about this weekend.  He knows at that point that he's not the perfect fit he was hoping he would be; *he* is comparing himself to this nebulous thing that is between them and coming up short. 

 

SheTookMyCoffeeCastle said:

 

To me, it also is a question of this "fear" she has somewhat mentioned when she said she does not think it is worth it to start a relationtship with someone who may break her heart (in mi mind, she's refering to Castle) and eventally leave.

But then again, when Castle says in  "The bubble burst soon enough" (talking about Esplaine) in POOF!, she counters with "Not if you're in it with the right person". So yes, it is truly interesting how rich and well written these characters are….she has been opening herself to new ideas, new phases in her life during and after the job. New people and new ways to tackle life and relationships.

She knows she is in for those hollow relationships that keep her "safe" from diving into what she now knows is the only worthy relationship for her…and to a certain point she has even opened her heart a bit to allowing herself or at least to think about "if only". 

in KNOCKOUT, she angrily yells at him "it is not enough anymore". It makes her angry he is making her realize once again about this relationships but also perhaps thinking she is so ready to cross that line.

And those are two more examples of that box that Kate fashioned to hold her perfect guy.  They must be the "right" guy, filling into her preconceived notion.  They must be stable, not likely to leave her before she wants to leave them, involved in the relationship but not too involved, not to the point-of-no-return because then there is a chance of a broken heart.  They can touch her mind and body and maybe even a corner of her heart but they can't grasp her heart in both hands and tug – because then they could break it.  It's interesting that this person who is so wrapped up in being the tough cop is so afraid of something like this.  Beckett the hero has a fatal flaw (like all heroes) and it is her heart.

We don't really need to see the details of that relationship to see the fallout though.  Josh isn't supposed to be a well-fleshed out character because his role in Kate's life is two-dimensional. She's written him a very limited part and that is where she keeps him.  It was enough for both of them… for a time.

And now Josh the custom-made romance novel lover, who she has kept startlingly separate from the rest of her life is about to have a Demming-like revelation.  But instead of a calm, conversation in a hallway, he is going to be hit with Kate's shooting, (possibly) Montgomery's death, Kate's father, Castle – who cares so deeply for Kate that he can't keep it off his face anymore, and a hallway full of Family who don't accept him.  It will be interesting to see the perfect cardiac surgeon, who has been cast in the lead role of Kate's lover, realize that all along he was really the understudy.  Will he react as well as Demming did?  I doubt it. 

Life is a great big canvas.  Throw all the paint you can at it! ~Danny Kaye
September 5, 2011
7:53 pm
Nev827
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It's interesting to me, when you think about it, how similar to Castle Josh is on the surface: tall, handsome, intelligent, successful at what he does, has a job with unconventional hours.  But when you go deeper that's where you see a divergence: Josh has devoted his career to saving lives, he rides a motorcycle so he's something of a daredevil, he travels a lot to the point where those he's close to don't have a lot of time with him.  Meanwhile Castle always makes time for his family and those he cares about, until he met Beckett he didn't spend a lot of his time helping others or doing much charity work (his agent probably set up some opportunities, but in the pilot, it really doesn't seem like any of them were regular gigs; he seemed very self-absorbed), and he's not much of a daredevil.  So as some of you already said, it seems like Beckett found a guy who she thinks is her type, but in reality isn't.  At the same time, he is just enough like the guy she really wants for her to keep him around. 

It's also interesting what she said to Castle in Setup about how the one thing that most attracted her to Josh has become the very thing that drives her crazy.  She initially thought that his being busy with work and Doctors Without Borders was great and liked him for it, but she didn't realize that it would make their relationship that much harder since both of them have crazy hours. 

"Make you a deal," she said. "I'll watch my ass, you watch the crowd." - Nikki Heat in Heat Wave Avatar by SKB
September 12, 2011
9:27 pm
ACF
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I was thinking this might be a better place for the conversation about Josh and Beckett so I'm replying here… 

Somewhere else in these forums there was a conversation about how Josh was the Good-on-paper guy.  He's the guy everyone would write for the surface Beckett that most people see.  He's the guy that Becket herself thinks she should be with.  And in another thread, someone else brought up the fact that Beckett's story needs a guy like Josh – the meta romance novel commentary on the perfect man – because then she will realize that the perfect man is not what the heart wants.  So, Josh's character is a means to an end to point out the Achillis Heel of Beckett the hero.  It is her heart.  And while she starts these relationships with men that she likes and maybe even loves on some level, she protects that very deepest part of her heart that was broken once.  It's the part of her she protects without even realizing it, because it's her weak spot, that she could break again if it were damaged. 

So when Stana says that Beckett has never been in love with anyone except Castle, what she says is true on a certain level.  He's the only person that I believe Beckett will love with all her heart, even the part that she protects so fiercely now.  Just like someone said in the other thread… she will find that the loves she believes she had before will be nothing compared to what she has with Castle.  But that hero Beckett who is protecting her Achillis heel (her heart), staying away from the Kryptonite (Castle), has not been able to let herself take the chance and find out what would happen if she were to allow Castle in completely.  (wow, did I mix a bunch of metaphors in *that* sentence!)  The Hero's journey is just getting to the part where the hero is broken down and shown to be mere mortal, but the story isn't over yet.

Besides, if everyone who was in love kept score, monitored their own personal fault-o-meter, made sure that things were fair always…  well, then there would be no one in love.  Because true love is not about who's right or wrong or who's at fault.

It seems that we will keep coming back to Montgomery's words, it's about choices and then living with those choices, learning from those choices and making better choices in the future.  We need to give Beckett and Castle (and Josh!) the chance to live and learn… and finish their journey.

Life is a great big canvas.  Throw all the paint you can at it! ~Danny Kaye
September 13, 2011
8:58 pm
angsioux
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One thing brought up in the S4 perseason was that Beckett and Josh have been together for close to a year so there had to be some kind of "love" there.  My thought is how can it be said they were together for so long when it seems like Josh was gone for months on end.  They could maybe only be "together" for less then 6 months is my guess and that is with all the Dr without Borders trips.  In Knockout when Castle asks about Josh, Beckett looks like she doesn't even flinch and asks "what about you Rick".  Wanting to know his feelings.  Beckett has spent more time with Castle in that time then with Josh.  The shipper in me hopes that Josh is gone in Rise while Kate is recovering so Rick and Kate can finally start to move on the sloooooooooow dance of theirs. 

September 17, 2011
11:07 pm
Nev827
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ACF said:

I was thinking this might be a better place for the conversation about Josh and Beckett so I'm replying here… 

Somewhere else in these forums there was a conversation about how Josh was the Good-on-paper guy.  He's the guy everyone would write for the surface Beckett that most people see.  He's the guy that Becket herself thinks she should be with.  And in another thread, someone else brought up the fact that Beckett's story needs a guy like Josh – the meta romance novel commentary on the perfect man – because then she will realize that the perfect man is not what the heart wants.  So, Josh's character is a means to an end to point out the Achillis Heel of Beckett the hero.  It is her heart.  And while she starts these relationships with men that she likes and maybe even loves on some level, she protects that very deepest part of her heart that was broken once.  It's the part of her she protects without even realizing it, because it's her weak spot, that she could break again if it were damaged. 

So when Stana says that Beckett has never been in love with anyone except Castle, what she says is true on a certain level.  He's the only person that I believe Beckett will love with all her heart, even the part that she protects so fiercely now.  Just like someone said in the other thread… she will find that the loves she believes she had before will be nothing compared to what she has with Castle.  But that hero Beckett who is protecting her Achillis heel (her heart), staying away from the Kryptonite (Castle), has not been able to let herself take the chance and find out what would happen if she were to allow Castle in completely.  (wow, did I mix a bunch of metaphors in *that* sentence!)  The Hero's journey is just getting to the part where the hero is broken down and shown to be mere mortal, but the story isn't over yet.

Besides, if everyone who was in love kept score, monitored their own personal fault-o-meter, made sure that things were fair always…  well, then there would be no one in love.  Because true love is not about who's right or wrong or who's at fault.

It seems that we will keep coming back to Montgomery's words, it's about choices and then living with those choices, learning from those choices and making better choices in the future.  We need to give Beckett and Castle (and Josh!) the chance to live and learn… and finish their journey.

Awesome post! I especially agree with the part I've bolded.

"Make you a deal," she said. "I'll watch my ass, you watch the crowd." - Nikki Heat in Heat Wave Avatar by SKB
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