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The New Captain
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November 14, 2011
1:30 am
Suicide_King
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Ok, Castle is my favorite show, even over Burn Notice, which is saying something.  But I hate, HATE the new captain.  Captain Call Me Sir……seriously?  Has she been Knighted by the Queen?  Does she have a p*nis of which we are not aware?  I am a former Marine Captain, and I very much respected my superior officers, but I never had any female tell me to address her as Sir.  The ones that I am still in contact with find the very idea ludicrous, and faintly insulting.  So, while I hope I haven't offended anyone here, I'm just putting it out there that maybe it's a bad idea.

 

SK

November 14, 2011
1:44 am
He-Touches-Things
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Suicide_King said:

Ok, Castle is my favorite show, even over Burn Notice, which is saying something.  But I hate, HATE the new captain.  Captain Call Me Sir……seriously?  Has she been Knighted by the Queen?  Does she have a p*nis of which we are not aware?  I am a former Marine Captain, and I very much respected my superior officers, but I never had any female tell me to address her as Sir.  The ones that I am still in contact with find the very idea ludicrous, and faintly insulting.  So, while I hope I haven't offended anyone here, I'm just putting it out there that maybe it's a bad idea.

SK

Welcome to these boards, SK!

We've discussed this, and there is a wide range of opinions, but I hope I'm not being presumptuous with this summary. Generally, while many don't like Capt. Permafrost, most are seeming to appreciate what her presence is forcing the gang of four to do – that is, they are working more closely with each other and becoming a tighter team. I happen to like her – as a character in the story, not in real life. I once worked for someone who was somewhat like that, and I stayed out of her way – she is now a State Representative.

Season VII - Sept. 29, 10:01PM In the FPOTZ
November 14, 2011
2:36 am
grapes
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Hi SK!

I dunno, to me its not that clear what the creators of the show tend to say with Gates wanted to be called sir. Are they disregarding the profession or are they having Gates make some kind of statement? It may very well clash with current culture but then again culture isn't a fixed in time phenomenon and TV shows like these can have quite the influence of cultural development. So the creators may want to take this opportunity to put that idea out there and see what gives.
You can ask yourself if it matters if gender is an issue when someone has a rank. If Gates was a man he would be called sir. Gates being a woman and wanting to be called sir indicates to me that she wants to be treated equally like men. Just like mentioning a women has got balls isn't meant literally but that is how the expression goes and people will understand that. So maybe to Gates it means that she got that rank because she earned it the way it is supposed to be earned and she wants to be respected for that. That may be a little too strong for anyone's taste but then again she supposed to be a strong character.

November 14, 2011
7:26 pm
Nev827
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grapes said:

You can ask yourself if it matters if gender is an issue when someone has a rank. If Gates was a man he would be called sir. Gates being a woman and wanting to be called sir indicates to me that she wants to be treated equally like men. Just like mentioning a women has got balls isn't meant literally but that is how the expression goes and people will understand that. So maybe to Gates it means that she got that rank because she earned it the way it is supposed to be earned and she wants to be respected for that. That may be a little too strong for anyone's taste but then again she supposed to be a strong character.

I agree it is a little discombobulating to call a woman "Sir" but it's not unusual, I guess.  It's mainly up to Gates and if that's what she wants, her subordinates have to comply.  And I agree with grapes' thoughts above in bold.  She's not someone who wants to be treated as a female Captain, but rather as a Captain.  Also, a co-worker of mine who retired from a local police department as a Corporal said she had some males calling her sir and she didn't correct them if that was their habit.  But all she really cared about was that they did their jobs properly. She didn't really care how they addressed her.

"Make you a deal," she said. "I'll watch my ass, you watch the crowd." - Nikki Heat in Heat Wave Avatar by SKB
November 14, 2011
7:55 pm
FillKat
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What do you think of when you use the word Madam (short version, Ma'am)?  You primarily think of your mother, grandmother or more broadly speaking, caretaker of sorts.  The word originated in the mid 1600s and was primarily used to address royalty.  Either way you look at it, I think Sir best fits the job description.  Titles really haven't evolved with the times and I think most women 'of a certain age' really don't care for, nor does it really fit their working situation in a proper or respectful fashion.

 

I'm in agreement with grapes and others with Gates being addressed as Sir.

:)

November 14, 2011
11:21 pm
southrnbygrace
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I think she's just being a pain in everyone's behind. Bosses like her should be reported to their superiors by every single person working under them. It's horrible to work at a place where your work is never appreciated or respected by those in command. I've been there. I'd have no problem if she were the next casualty in the war against the person that ordered all the murders surrounding Johanna Beckett's death. None at all. She's an unnecessary thorn in everyone's side. If they wanted to bring in a new Capt…that's fine. But make it someone that knows how to work WITH her people and not against them.All I've seen, is her causing everyone undue stress on the job, when their jobs are already among the most stressful anyway. That's not how a true leader should work.

 

And I couldn't agree more about the 'sir' thing. If she wants to be a man so badly, let her go get a sex change. THEN and only then would I address her as sir. Until then I'd choose the other alternative and call her captain. IMO, again, it's disrespectful to the female gender to expect anyone to address you as they would your male counterpart.

Icon by justlook3, who made me an entire set of black and white Nathan icons. *sigh*
November 16, 2011
8:45 pm
Nev827
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Gates has been annoying me too all this season, but I remember reading something back in the summer that said while she's tough on her people, she's also pretty darn loyal to them and will support them when needed.  She's done that so far this season and in the last episode, she seemed to soften a bit towards Beckett and Castle.  I still think it will take something like Castle saving her life before she genuinely appreciates him.

"Make you a deal," she said. "I'll watch my ass, you watch the crowd." - Nikki Heat in Heat Wave Avatar by SKB
November 17, 2011
6:37 pm
jrabbit
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Today I was rewatching 3XK and there's a scene where Captain Montgomery "tells" Beckett to keep Gates (MarcusLaugh) from lawyer-ing up.

After she leaves, Castle asks him how she can do that, and he answers quietly by saying that he doesn't think she can.

 

Now lets replay that scene with I'm The Boss Gates ….

Ms. Gates storms out of her office and says … "KEEP HIM FROM LAWYER-ING UP!!!!!! !!!! !!!!!! !!!!  -- and GET HIM TO CONFESS TOO!!! AND MAKE HIM CHANGE HIS NAME – I'M NOT SHARING!  I'M GOING TO CALL THE MAYOR AND TELL HIM THAT WE HAVE 3XK!!" and she bungees back into her office.

 The contrast is amazing. And I know who I would work my a$$ off for and who gets my minimal effort.

November 28, 2011
9:24 pm
Mustang11b35d
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I'm actually fine with the overbearing captain as a character type, serving to bring the others closer together, and I think Ms. Jerald plays the role just fine. I have to agree with Suicide King, though. In more than twenty years in the Army, I've worked with a great many fine female officers, and never once has anyone requested that they be called "sir." I think it's demeaning to women to say you can't be considered a "real" boss unless you're a man. The female officers who have served in both superior and subordinate ranks expected to be judged by their performance, and never needed the "I'm as good as you so you need to pretend I'm a man" artificial bravado.

 

I'm a big fan of the show. While I find Gates' "sir" issue a bit off-putting and a little befuddling, now that the writers have planted their flag on this issue, it's going to be impossible for them to back down. So I'll grit my teeth on the "sir" silliness and enjoy the rest.

December 8, 2011
3:46 pm
RickNotCastle
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I think the new captain is filling an appropriate role in the show.  Yes, I thought she was annoying, but I am also seeing her slowly thaw with each episode.  Like others pointed out, she definitely forced the core team to work more tightly together.  I suspect the writers are planning some events that will make her more personable, and maybe give us a glimpse into her head that illuminates the "sir" thing.  They seem to be pretty clever, so I am sure they had her insist on being called "sir" on purpose and it connects to something we will learn about the character this season.  And think about the personal relationship Montgomery had with Beckett for a minute.  If something crazy had happened and Beckett and Castle had had a breakthrough and started making out in the precinct after solving a big case Captain Montgomery would have watched with a small smile on his face and thought "finally that girl might be happy".  But if such a thing happened now with Captain Gates she would flip out, and Castle might even be booted.  A really different atmosphere at the "home base" for their relationship could create some really fun situations for us as they start playing more with each other again like at the end of 4x10.

January 25, 2012
3:59 pm
Bera
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I've thought the "sir" thing was weird, and this is even coming from the viewpoint of being a feminist (only because the word "humanist" has already been co-opted for a different meaning entirely).  But, it's the creator's choice.  I find myself wondering if he actually knows or knows of a female leader who insists on that distinction; for me, it violates reality.

We're meant to find Gates irritating; the intention was to up the stakes some from the warm & cozy "family" feeling of Montgomery and create tension within the force.  It's also a writerly gimmick to have the team working on other cases and not just bearing down on Beckett's in broad daylight.

My avocation is writing – not scripts meant for TV, so I'm definitely not an expert on the form – and I have to say that I find the concept of Gates interesting as a contrast to Montgomery.  We thought we knew Montgomery, and then he turned out to have this giant deception buried in his past; Gates is coming in as an enigma, and what we know about her – that she's from IA, that she barricades herself in her office, that she seems very concerned about the precinct's image "downtown" – is offputting.  I wish more tidbits about her would be revealed, because the bit of expose she gave Beckett – about her family being cops & herself coming up from patrol – is really interesting in context.  I said in another post, and I'll say it here:  she's bound to have access & resources the team knows nothing about.  I'm always wondering what's going on behind her steely gaze, and how much she's put together about Montgomery from taking over his office. 

For me, I'd love to see Gates step out on the line as an ally very late in the game – take her stand with Castle & Beckett when it all goes down – and bring all that "iron" in to win it for our side.

January 25, 2012
4:59 pm
castlefanatic14
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i actually like gates she not very popular among many people but she has helped the team with some interesting cases like the dial M for mayor she gave us more to her backround but not a whole lot but still. I think shes also getting to like castle more and more on each case too Cool gates is alot more strict then montgormery but i think she contributes to the team. plus she reminds me of my math teacher lol

January 25, 2012
10:49 pm
mutha_nite
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When Star Trek: Next Generation premiered, women in command positions most often were called "Sir."  Cpt. Katherine Janeway of Voyager was the exception in the ST universe – one of the few who preferred "Ma'am."  When Gates was introduced, I just took it for granted that "Sir" was a shout-out to the Star Trek franchise and a way of saying, "It started here!"  And thanks for giving us Cassidy Yates, Worf, and Dr. Barker's alter-ego, Major Kyra Nerisse.  Now that you mention it, I have no feelings one way or another about how Gates prefers to be addressed.  I don't think that her leadership style is the most effective, but you will notice Javi has less trouble dealing with her than Kate and Kevin.  He's had more practice.  Laugh


"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy when fried and good with ketchup." smiley_dragon-1-2.gif
January 26, 2012
12:34 am
oznute
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And Detective Eve Dallas in the "In Death" books is also called 'Sir'.

If it is to be, it is up to me!
March 4, 2012
11:40 am
Laetitialfw
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"Iron Gates" grin. She is extremely quiet and we don't see a lot in the episodes (less than Montgomery). Anyway, she doesn't constantly on the back of Beckett,  the guys or Castle. She is present when needed at the right time … I think she is a good cop even if she isn't always agree about the Castle & Beckett's initiatives grin What matters to her I think it's the result and she also understood that it works between the both and that investigations are packed … maybe sometimes with a little fancy but what makes the charm of this unusual couple !

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