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11:21 am
January 30, 2010
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Exactly dmcw, I really didn't mean Kate was purposefully mean. I just think without a previsou discussion between them about the father-thing it was out of line in the way of her first comment being kind of smack-offish. I do agree Castle blew off the whole father storyline with Alexis but sometimes the only time we defend something or someone is when someone else makes a hasty or thoughtless comment. Then we feel the need to defend family, even if said family is loosely tied together, they are still family, you know? BLood thicker than water philosophy….
In the way of the Castle father storyline though, I thought they should have explored the idea that once Castle became a father, he was more interested in how to be a father and what his father was like. Even if a father was missing in his life, when he became a father I think those feelings would surely have surfaced in him. It would be only natural. SO while they might be buried for 40 years, the feelings might have surfaced a tad with Kate's comment and Esposito's views of Castle's Mom. He could be so used to burying his "dad" feelings that his hurt is beyond the surface. If Castle sees Kate with her Dad he might commnet to her about their relationship then a discussion of his "missing dad" could reveal his hurt a but more. A teasing commnet by Beckett could really blow up—-she is used to Castle's gallows humor, but he might not be so open to it when it is about a sensistive area of his life and loss.
What I really think needs to happen is have Kate work to keep this relationhsip a bit and show her hand for how she feels about him. Whatever way that can happen I would cheer it on! Kate seems as though she has been up to now able to keep her feelings pretty well hidden, with only a few moments of jealousy showing up. I think that needs to change. She needs to see Castle as too important to her to let go. She needs to work to get their relationship back on track. He is around her doting and I think she takes that for granted. I want that to be shaken a bit.
Kate needs to worry that he will not come back or that she really hurt him. It is time for Kate to soften and go to him for an apology or a heart to heart. We loved the desk side discussion after her mother's murder was killed. WHen Castle was feeling guilty and said he couldn't come back. SHe really showed a lot then. I think we need another discussion about "them" but this time from a Kate messing something up scenario. It could really show Kate that Castle is more than her shadow, he is very significant to her. No more blindly blowing him off.
I do not think the 'cat mouse' can continue much more without a step closer between the two. For those of you who say NO NO NO, mark this down, I do not mean marriage! TO me marriage is how the show ends. But they do need to explore moving past friends and begin to date or kiss or explore intimacy through personal discussions that bring them closer together. This is not jumping the shark—it is the way real relationship progress.
Hmmm. I don't think Kate is the only one that needs to be honest with her feelings. I don't recall Castle ever telling her how he truly feels. In the first episode he did let her know he was interested but more on the physical aspect of it. He said "go to dinner and de-brief each other." That didn't sound like he wanted a relationship with her.
And Castle doesn't hide the fact that he had slept with alot of women. And how do you expect Kate to take Castle seriously when he calls his ex wife and the mother of his child a "deep fried twinkie?" Something that he has once or twice a year.
If Kate was the type to just go for a roll in the hay, I think she would have taken Will up on his offer. But she didn't.
Both are afraid to take that next step. Castle thinks that Kate would never take him seriously, so he settles for shadowing her and being her friend. Kate think that Castle isn't over his being a bachelor and as Kate said, his personal life is on Page Six. So Kate, for all the confidence that she puts on, she's really insecure when it comes to Castle and her feelings for him. She's not used to the lifestyle that Castle lives. She's a very private person and she definitlely doesn't want to be just a fling.
When Kate came to Castle after finding out that her mother had been murdered by a hotman, it was her way of reching out to him. She doesn't easily trust anybody with her mother's case. And that's along way from telling Castle to leave it alone to now asking him to help him. And then at the end of that episode, she tells him she wants him there with him. Kate may not be declaring her love for him but she's declaring something. And that's a good thing.
Plus, the fact that she spends time with Alexis when Alexis needed someone to talk to. And when Alexis asked her if she could volunteer at the station and spent time with her there. She also takes the time to call his family just so they won't worry if Castle was hurt or not. These little things she does, she cares alot about Castle and these things endear her mroe to him.
Remember the saying "Easy to get, easy to forget." So I'm happy with this dance.
I really hope that this discussion doesn't turn into "Team Castle" or "Team Beckett."
2:12 pm
January 15, 2010
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Marbs84, I agree with you as well about Castle not having shown his feelings yet either. And you mentioned a lot of great ways that Kate has shown that she cares about him…when you look at them all taken together, she has certainly made some headway in that department, especially in Sucker Punch. But she has never had to apologize or get Castle back, so that would be an interesting turn.
The dance here is so great because there is so much to overcome for each of them. And I'm sure each character will make progress here and there with their baggage and hang-ups, but it's going to be a while before they are both on the same page, and that's what keeps the great URST going.
I am certainly not "Team Castle" or "Team Beckett"…I am equally fond of both characters and hooked on seeing how they each develop over time. I think Beckett will ultimately have the hardest time taking a leap of faith for all the reasons Marbs84 mentioned. As much as she is a fan of Castle's, she is pretty level-headed and seems to want a good relationship for the long haul. Castle does not fit that bill right now even if she does trust him as a friend and see his value to the work she does.
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2:44 pm
February 23, 2010
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Honestly? I find the addictiveness of this ship is that both characters understand each other so well… but completely misunderstand each other at the same time. Both are aware that the other has a thing for the other but neither realise what, exactly, the other feels for them. Which is hilarious since both are looking for a serious relationship but neither knows that – Beckett thinks he wants a fling and Castle doesn't know what he wants but he does know that he's screwed up every serious relationship he's been in and he doesn't want to lose Kate.
And it will stay that way for awhile – both are once bit/twice shy over matters of the heart after all. It'd take a lot, like Johanna's killer and Castle thinking about leaving, for one to reach out for the other.
2:48 pm
dmcw said:
Marbs84, I agree with you as well about Castle not having shown his feelings yet either. And you mentioned a lot of great ways that Kate has shown that she cares about him…when you look at them all taken together, she has certainly made some headway in that department, especially in Sucker Punch. But she has never had to apologize or get Castle back, so that would be an interesting turn.
The dance here is so great because there is so much to overcome for each of them. And I'm sure each character will make progress here and there with their baggage and hang-ups, but it's going to be a while before they are both on the same page, and that's what keeps the great URST going.
I am certainly not "Team Castle" or "Team Beckett"…I am equally fond of both characters and hooked on seeing how they each develop over time. I think Beckett will ultimately have the hardest time taking a leap of faith for all the reasons Marbs84 mentioned. As much as she is a fan of Castle's, she is pretty level-headed and seems to want a good relationship for the long haul. Castle does not fit that bill right now even if she does trust him as a friend and see his value to the work she does.
Oh you are right dmcw she has shown in a lot of ways that she does care, and we have been privy to them. What I mean is that she is not really telling herself these things. She seems to be fearful of admitting that to herself. I agree Castle has let his playful bachelor side show too much so that is does not trust that he is ready for something serisou. In fact he looks like the last person ready for something serious. I think both of them show they care deeply but to themselves they are both still playing the game. It isn't Team Castle or Team Beckett it is Team TV SHOW. For the show and the fan base, the dance can be tiresome if there is no movement for too long. I am only saying incremental movement woudl be grea tif Kate would need to take him and his hero worship of her right now a little less for granted. If she had to work to repair something with him she might realize to her own self that he really has won her heart. There will always be that part of Kate that worries she could become tabloid fodder for his shennanigans—–that is the last thing Kate Beckett could stomach. If the up and coming TICK TICK BOOM two part series has Kate's apartment exploding like I have read on the boards, then Castle could really leap ahead into the realization that Kate Beckett is not like his typical flings–she is the girl that will last. He probably will leap into his feelings but then when Kate gets her 4 episode boyfriend he will probablay be devastated and enormously jealous. THat could be really funny or heartbreaking or both. Kate however, will probably take longer to trust how she feels about him—especially if this boyfriend is the looker they say.
5:34 pm
December 6, 2009
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hello fellow Castle fans!! 
:
I must be quick so sorry but I don't have time to respond individually to posts yet.. but I just wanted to say that the purpose of this thread was to discuss Unresolved Sexual Tension in general, and in the context of Castle.. I am loving this discussion.. but am wondering if maybe it should be in the 'how will they get together' thread – or the 'relationship' thread.. there may be people out there who aren't interested in discussing UST or URST..as a concept, but would want to weigh in on your great thoughts on the evolution of Castle and Beckett.. and they may not catch this great discussion under the URST discussion thread..
Also, I just wanted to make sure my position on all this was clear – I want Castle and Beckett together yesterday… and don't want to wait… but.. I am coming to the realisation that because of URST ( or UST!!) they aren't going to get them together soon.. this is why I started this thread- to discuss UST and ask- could we think of any show that had successfully made the leap from future couple with UST to present couple successfully- successfully meaning without leading to the end of the show in some way.. and also a couple who were the main characters.. and on a show which is based around this couple's relationship ..
I have been testing out my theory on this.. and… if we could come up with one or two shows that did do this successfully then my theory would be (very happily) blown out of the water – the theory being that no show is going to bring together a couple like Castle and Beckett in 2 seasons kind of thing..
Do I think it can be done? with good writing you bet!!! but.. I don't think studios will let it happen.. hearing Stana say on one of those video interviews that is is based on moonlighting only reinforces for me the likelihood they won't be making the 'mistake' that moonlighting did.. (-saying this is what they think.. not what I think: moonlighting was more complicated than that though if you ask me!)
7:48 pm
March 1, 2010
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The Office resolved their URST with Jim and Pam, and it worked out great. Given, that show doesn't revolve around just those two characters, but still… I think this is an example it could work.
8:54 pm
pplforheat said:
The Office resolved their URST with Jim and Pam, and it worked out great. Given, that show doesn't revolve around just those two characters, but still… I think this is an example it could work.
Excellent example pplforheat! I think creatively their banter could really turn up a notch with some sexual chemistry ratcheted up. I have often thought that a secret relationship where they do not want the precinct team to know and Castle does not want Martha or Alexis to know would be ideal in my view! They could have the tension, have the secrecy and the double entendre' woudl be hysterical. Maybe Beckett is worried about dating a partner so to speak because of a reputation since she also dated Will. Castle would not to hear 'I told you so's" from martha or parade Beckett around to Alexis who would possibly think a marriage would ensue. I think written so they have to hide—would be a great way to start. I could wqrite that one in fanfic.
8:54 pm
pplforheat said:
The Office resolved their URST with Jim and Pam, and it worked out great. Given, that show doesn't revolve around just those two characters, but still… I think this is an example it could work.
1:33 pm
February 24, 2010
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Doz said:
but.. I am coming to the realisation that because of URST ( or UST!!) they aren't going to get them together soon.. this is why I started this thread- to discuss UST and ask- could we think of any show that had successfully made the leap from future couple with UST to present couple successfully- successfully meaning without leading to the end of the show in some way.. and also a couple who were the main characters.. and on a show which is based around this couple's relationship ..
I generally dislike the constant referencing of the so-called "Moonlighting Curse" by TV producers/writers. Firstly because it's a bad example given the backstage problems the show had. Secondly, the thing has become a self-fulfilling prophecy. It seems that TPTB are so scared by the possibility of viewers losing interest once the "main" (non-)couple on the show get together – as if every TV viewer only watches a show for romance (??!!) – that they are willing to jeopardize the "realism" and the show's characters' integrity just to make sure the UST is never resolved. By desperately trying not to "ruin" the character interaction they succeed in doing just that. See: Bones, where (IMHO) the handling of the show's plotlines since mid-Season 3 makes the show worthy of being a primary case in a book entitled How Not To Write A Show. Bones also made the mistake of focusing too much on Booth/Brennan at the expense of the other characters – one I hope the Castle writers don't make because with Ryan, Esposito and Lanie they have plenty of entertainment gold to mine without devolving the characters into merely a Greek chorus for the Beckett/Castle relationship.
On the other hand, there's the possibility of getting two characters too quickly without proper planning. See: How I Met Your Mother's Barney/Robin. The writers gave us a season of pining!Barney but never really allowed Robin to contemplate him in a romantic capacity for more than 5 minutes before having them make out. And when Season 5 started it showed. So now the most popular 'ship on the show – one the audience has been supposed to be invested in for 1+ year as the main romantic plotline – has been "reset", if not permanently shunted. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong – I haven't kept up with HIMYM since 5x08ish.)
I guess my point is this: UST is great. It's great fun to watch, but only as long as the "roadblocks" to its resolution remain organic and true to show's characters. Drag it out too far and you essentially ruin what made it fun in the first place. However, get them together too quickly, without a long-term plan for their interactions and again, you've written yourself into a corner it's very difficult to write yourself out of convincingly and not resort to stupid on/off/on/off melodrama.
Just my two cents.
2:04 pm
January 15, 2010
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pplforheat said:
The Office resolved their URST with Jim and Pam, and it worked out great. Given, that show doesn't revolve around just those two characters, but still… I think this is an example it could work.
I still very much like Jim and Pam, and I still watch, but not really any longer for them primarily. Case in point, the "baby" episode of the office last night. Lots of "aww, cute" moments, but I'm not hanging onto the details of their storyline as I once did.
Insomniac, I really like your assessment of the issue. There probably is that perfect window in every show, where the situation is ripe for a couple to get together and it needs to happen, but like you said, there needs to be a plan in place for where to go from there. Miss the window and the tension dies. Jump the gun too early and risk a shorter run of the show.
Castle has so much that has been untapped in terms of character and storyline, that they certainly don't need to get to that window with Castle and Beckett anytime soon. Development of Lanie/Esposito/Ryan, addition of family members (could Beckett have siblings?, cousins?), Beckett's life outside the office/friendships, Castle's past marriages, etc. can all serve to keep things fun and fresh. And Castle and Beckett are such great characters with so much chemistry, that I think there is enough to keep things exciting even after they get together for a season or two (especially if their relationship is secret from others for awhile).
Time for writers to think outside the box and overcome this issue! I don't know that there is an example of main characters being successfully brought together and developed, so this may be unchartered territory for making tv history!
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2:52 pm
January 4, 2010
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Ok,you all knew that I couldn't/wouldn't be able to resist this one and you were right. Take no prisioners. 
URST/UST/RST, This whole series was conceived with the romantic angle(urst) as a character with a life of it's own.Since the begining the writing has slowly pushed and pulled the main characters together and apart. It's like any relationship slowly developing over time with the exception of the almost surreal chemistry between Castle and Beckett. The chemistry could potientially carry the show through season 3 without a hook up.The writing has been absolutely top notch for the most part.The teases have been smartly writen and carried out flawlessly by the mains.
However,why yes,I have a however.However,the viewing audience demands a romantic link up(resolution of urst) of some kind. I for one will not stay dedicated for 5 seasons without one. Period.It doesn't have to be intercourse three or four times an episode but I want a (real,meaningful,mutually understood for what it is) kiss between these characters and I want one soon. Do you hear me. Soon!!! lol
This group of writing talent know about URST,and all the previous shows that used it and have had years to learn how to adjust it to fit the viewing audience. I would absolutely hate to see this chemistry wasted on bull schrit quirks and twist. I'm already a little unhappy about writing in Beckett a romantic partner for four episodes but willing to give the benifit of the doubt because of excellence demonstrated in past writing.I am still willing to trust the vision of Marlowe and team because they have not disappionted so far.
Bottom line is I want to see Beckett and Castle hooked up and backed up with more excellent writing. So……….Marlowe and team,show me the money shot and show me sooner rather than later.
3:37 pm
February 24, 2010
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dmcw said:
Insomniac, I really like your assessment of the issue. There probably is that perfect window in every show, where the situation is ripe for a couple to get together and it needs to happen, but like you said, there needs to be a plan in place for where to go from there. Miss the window and the tension dies. Jump the gun too early and risk a shorter run of the show.
I think one of American TV shows' greatest weaknesses – particularly those built around a central (romantic) relationship – is the fact that they are conceived without necessarily having an end point in sight. Notable exceptions include shows like BSG and Lost but mostly these shows are created and then milked for as many seasons as possible until they get bad/the audience stops watching. Now I'm not saying that all shows need some sort of self-imposed endgame but for shows with UST relationships, I think it can be very detrimental to the overall quality of the show and the directions the characters are allowed to take.
dmcw said:
And Castle and Beckett are such great characters with so much chemistry, that I think there is enough to keep things exciting even after they get together for a season or two (especially if their relationship is secret from others for awhile).
The Paley Center blurb compares them to Nick and Nora (again) which makes me very happy because Castle and Beckett definitely have the potential become the post-feminism/21st century Nick and Nora. Whatsmore it would be real fun to watch – fight hard, love harder. Another part of the "RST=show death" argument I do not understand is this apparent idea that it is impossible to write interesting married couples or that ST vanishes once the couple are together – Nick and Nora (6 films!) and The West Wing's Jed and Abbey care to disagree! Managing that transition from partners to romantic partners would certainly be hard but totally worth the effort IMO. That's why what Jose Molina (I think?) said recently about how the UST is what keeps Castle and Beckett working together and is the show's basic premise worries me. As much as I adore the show, the premise is rather thin and, despite the "3 book deal" thing in 2x05, the idea that Castle would shadow Beckett for 5+ years (if the show lasts that long) as work partner without anything developing between them is stretching it a little. Makes more sense for them to be together and have him not being able to resist sticking his nose in his girlfriend's/wife's business, but that's just me.
Moby Dick said:
I'm already a little unhappy about writing in Beckett a romantic partner for four episodes but willing to give the benifit of the doubt because of excellence demonstrated in past writing.I am still willing to trust the vision of Marlowe and team because they have not disappionted so far.
I'm refraining from getting worked up about this love interest because, as you say, so far the writers have not disappointed on that front. Kyra was so important in showing the softer, serious side of Castle that Beckett needs to know lurks beneath the manchild exterior for her to ever consider anything more than flirty banter with him. I wouldn't have minded Will coming back (I want to know how that ended) but if it's New Guy instead, I don't mind that either as long as it gives us and Castle more insight into what Beckett looks for (and behaves like) in a relationship. So, I'm not worried… yet.
4:46 pm
January 5, 2010
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Regarding Will's character, my understanding is that a whole arc was planned for his character, but Bailey Chase got other work and couldn't stick with the show. And from what I've heard, the writers were kinda excited about his arc, but couldn't make it work with his schedule. Maybe sometime down the road they'll bring him back and we'll have a resolution.
5:22 pm
January 4, 2010
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Nev827 said:
Regarding Will's character, my understanding is that a whole arc was planned for his character, but Bailey Chase got other work and couldn't stick with the show. And from what I've heard, the writers were kinda excited about his arc, but couldn't make it work with his schedule. Maybe sometime down the road they'll bring him back and we'll have a resolution.
insomniac said:
" I wouldn't have minded Will coming back (I want to know how that ended) but if it's New Guy instead, I don't mind that either as long as it gives us and Castle more insight into what Beckett looks for (and behaves like) in a relationship. So, I'm not worried… yet."
" Makes more sense for them to be together and have him not being able to resist sticking his nose in his girlfriend's/wife's business, but that's just me."
YES!,That would make sense.It works for Nora Robert's J D Robb characters Eve Dallas and Rork just fine.They are the closest to these characters that i've seen.
I understand your views on Will's part and character in the show and in the developement of how Beckett reacts in a relationship.The problem I had with Will was that he and Beckett didn't have the chemistry. I got no feeling of relationship(or urst) with those two. Understandably lacking because of limited exposure but their just wasn't the spark between them that has existed from 5 minutes into ep.1 season one with C&B. There is the magic that has carried this show in my opinion.Everyone was lured in from the first barb "I'd be glad to let you spank me" and the audience was all C&B from that moment on.At least that is how I saw it.
With the next episode,maybe she will finally spank him. What do you think? 
Talk about an URST episode. They can't get much more URST than what the spoilers have shown.
5:45 pm
January 15, 2010
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insomniac said:
That's why what Jose Molina (I think?) said recently about how the UST is what keeps Castle and Beckett working together and is the show's basic premise worries me. As much as I adore the show, the premise is rather thin and, despite the "3 book deal" thing in 2x05, the idea that Castle would shadow Beckett for 5+ years (if the show lasts that long) as work partner without anything developing between them is stretching it a little. Makes more sense for them to be together and have him not being able to resist sticking his nose in his girlfriend's/wife's business, but that's just me.
I am in agreement with your concern on this. Jose compared the detective work to foreplay and said that that aspect would have to come to an end if Castle and Beckett got together since the show isn't Hart to Hart (or something along those lines). Many people have expressed that the comment was simply Jose's opinion and not necessarily reflective of the overall vision for the show.
I, for one, am hoping that is the case. I don't see the detective work so much as foreplay, but rather as an aspect of shared passion in their relationship. The banter may be foreplay, but I think fun, exciting couples keep that flirt going even after their relationships have progressed. Beckett and Castle certainly have enough differences in their approaches to work and life and love to provide fodder for tension in their relationship if done right.
I'm sure that they could drag out the relationship for 5+ years with numerous gimmicks and recurring plot points, but I'm equally hopeful that they are creative enough to develop Castle and Beckett's relationship in an unprecedented way. I'm excited to see what the new love interest unveils about Beckett's behavior in relationships (there wasn't a ton revealed with Will) and Castle's feelings (which he hides behind his flirting and yearning glances). I don't think a spontaneous kiss is out of the question in the near future, especially because it could fuel plenty of misunderstandings and awkward tension between Castle and Beckett.
5 seasons with a single forced kiss and goofy coma hallucination has not done Bones any good in my opinion. I think I mentioned earlier that, for me, Moonlighting started off things in the right direction. As early as season 2, Maddie and David shared a spontaneous kiss when they thought David would have to leave, and there were several fantasized kisses between them, as well. It may be gimmicky, but I don't think it's out of the question that either of those circumstances could happen between Castle and Beckett. They're both passionate characters, and I figure they'd be imagining or dreaming about kissing even if they aren't willing to carry things forward or admit any feelings. And they certainly are in each other's personal space enough for an uninterrupted "cherries" moment or dangerous situation on the job to turn into a spontaneous kiss.
By now I'm probably repeating myself on this topic, but it's fun to think about!
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