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Ep 5:08 - Post Episode Discussion
November 20, 2012
10:08 pm
He-Touches-Things
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Toronto said

ACF said
I've been thinking more about Beckett's line, "I'm just a cop."

She uses that line a lot. In fact, I think it's a crutch to her. That line is the verbal manifestation of Beckett Super Cop, the armor she put on so that she could cope in a world where she didn't belong. Castle was right when he cold read her in that very first episode – women like her don't become cops, they stay in the world where they were raised. But Beckett, driven by her demons, pushed and shoved herself into this world in an effort to kill the pain of (and the man who caused) her mom's death. When is the first time we here it? I think it's the 2nd or 3rd episode. Castle: Until tomorrow Beckett: why can't you just 'night? Castle: (snip) Until tomorrow is more hopeful. Beckett: Well, I'm a cop….. Translation: I can't be hopeful. Hopeful hurts. Future hurts. Looking forward to something (or someone) hurts. So I fall back into my excuse. I'm a cop so I can't. I do this because I don't want to even think of doing any of *that*.

I truly think that she made herself into a pretty darn good cop out of sheer force of will and putting everything she cared about behind that wall of hers. Someone said she was a case-solving machine back then. I think that is true and I think that is why she keeps that phrase in her back pocket. "I'm a cop" means she doesn't have to attempt whatever is being asked of her because it just won't work. It won't fit into the narrow confines of the world she has created around her that bears little resemblance to the world of Katie Beckett who had a mom. But I don't think she was ever the best at everything "cop" which is why she gets disarmed and why she still makes mistakes, even as a Beckett Super Cop. She was never really a super cop, but she tried really hard to be and at some point bought into her own legend in her head to make the rationalization work.

It's interesting that Castle is the one who tries so hard to convince her that she can do this, that she's "got this"; he's the one giving back her badge and gun in this episode. I think he's terrified that if she loses being a cop, he'll lose his connection to her. He has no idea what she might be without all the trappings of being "a cop" and he has no idea if he's enough to hold her attention. He's more than willing to help her break through her wall but I've noticed that the little part of that wall, the "I'm a cop" part is one section he seems to be reinforcing.

As I almost said in my earlier post, some of this may be what the writers are hanging her character on, but I don't think it works very well, nor true to at least (this) one person's view of Beckett as a strong female character.  When cops say, "I'm just a cop", it's more like "that's what I am, and it is a real job, so take it or leave it." Why would she lose being a cop? What's wrong with being a cop? She can be a cop and still be fully female -- that seems to be at least what Stana continues to say about the role of a woman in the 2010s. 

Except this time the context of her statement implies "just a cop" because she's painting a contrast between her and Castle's moneyed world.

Season VII - Sept. 29, 10:01PM In the FPOTZ
November 20, 2012
10:11 pm
PenguinOfTroy
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Ok, I was going to wait until I had a second chance to watch the episode before posting my thoughts, but I've decided to get them down now and then come back later and (hopefully) yell at myself for being an idiot but…

 

I was disappointed by this episode.

There was a lot in it that I loved. And probably when I rewatch I'll realize that I liked or loved 99% of the episode and this one thing (which I'll explain in a second) has clouded what was a better episode than I'm giving it credit for.

Here's the thing: I love Kate Beckett. She is my favorite character on the show (by far). But I didn't like Kate Beckett last night. Because she wasn't the character that I've come to know and love. And I'm not talking about her insecurities regarding Castle. She is a spaz in her personal life and I thought her questions were totally warranted.

However, Kate Beckett is not a spaz in her professional life. She is a tough, savvy, competent and trained COP. But in last night's episode she was, for me, a damsel in distress. And I can't figure out if it was the writing or the acting or even the directing.

The Kate Beckett I know and love wouldn't panic the way she did when they were stranded. She wouldn't have looked like a terrified little girl when they talked to the guy overhead. She wouldn't have looked like a deer in the headlights when talking to the cabbie. 

I didn't need her to be Super Cop. But I just didn't believe that she would be so…helpless. I mean, she totally took out the guy who came in to find them with bad ass cop moves, yet she couldn't muster a bit of authority in her voice or face when talking to the cabbie? It didn't work for me.

I've had others tell me that without her badge and gun – the symbols of her authority – she was without some of her strength. But I don't buy that either. Because so much of her authority, not just as a cop but as a woman, comes from her posture, the vibe that she gives off, and that wouldn't go away just because she wasn't armed. 

If they wanted to go that route I wish they would have done so with more subtlety. (Disclaimer: I love Stana. I worship her acting 99% of the time but…) I feel like Stana missed the mark by overplaying the panic and/or the director missed the mark by not reeling that aspect in.

Again, I'm going to rewatch tonight and hopefully I'll come back and think differently. 

On a more positive note: Susan KILLED IT. When she talked to Jim about the danger their children are in, man it was ridiculously good.

I also loved the bickering between Castle and Beckett, as well as their more serious talk.

I thought Nathan stood out this episode for hitting all the right notes in both comedic and dramatic moments.

So all in all, my first impression was: good episode but didn't hit it out of the park as Castle usually does.

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November 20, 2012
10:14 pm
He-Touches-Things
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wepprop said

catluver aka Donna said somebody else said…

The end was a special one for me because Kate came out of the closet in front of everyone.

Our heroes didn't get together for 'four years' because, in large part, Kate didn't think it would work. If anyone thought all of those doubts vanished in the 'Always' moment, they were fooling themselves. She had simply reached 'the tipping point' where she came to believe she had more to lose by not trying. But her doubts did not vanish simply because she decided to jump in. That will take time and reassurance.

Frankly, this all seems to me to be an extremely realistic portrayal of a nascent relationiship, especially given that it's being told at the rate of about 5 minutes per week, on average.

Thank you. In RL, long-held fears and insecurities rarely totally disappear as if by magic. They usually take time and work to overcome.

Season VII - Sept. 29, 10:01PM In the FPOTZ
November 20, 2012
10:18 pm
Shena
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PenguinOfTroy said
I was disappointed by this episode…

Here's the thing: I love Kate Beckett. She is my favorite character on the show (by far). But I didn't like Kate Beckett last night. Because she wasn't the character that I've come to know and love. And I'm not talking about her insecurities regarding Castle. She is a spaz in her personal life and I thought her questions were totally warranted.

However, Kate Beckett is not a spaz in her professional life. She is a tough, savvy, competent and trained COP. But in last night's episode she was, for me, a damsel in distress. And I can't figure out if it was the writing or the acting or even the directing….

Warranted observation, Penguin... personally, I just saw it as her being frazzled by the tension between her and Castle.

Fear-1.jpg
November 20, 2012
10:20 pm
JohannaB
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Toronto said
I liked the episode, but I do think they are still working out how to make the Castle-Beckett banter work better. It is still pretty jerky.  And I agree with others that Beckett's insecurity is somewhat overworked -- the reason is not that it is overworked in terms of being used too often, it is because it doesn't really work on screen, we get impatient with it -- it's that Beckett is more interesting when she is working from strength: there is something in the insecure Beckett that doesn't really work (and here I don't find Stana's acting this way works very well -- and I think she is a great actress -- it undermines her energy somehow).  (And personally, I just don't believe that a woman like Beckett, who essentially has her pick of any man in the world, just thinks of herself as a mere cop in a relationship with a world famous guy.  What ever happened to the Beckett of the first season who didn't really give a rat's ass who he or anyone was -- she had the power.  She still does. I have this desperate hope that she will tell him to get F***** lost. Then their relationship will get much more interesting.) 

 

I would be interested to be a fly on the wall when Beckett asks Castle how come he spilled the beans about where she and the witness were hiding.  That was kind of dumb on his part. 

 

The coded message in the telephone has been done before……Not to mention the shooting into an empty car routine. Come on, writers, a bit more imagination please. There seems to be a tendency in the episodes recently to get everyone into a complex situation and then ride out the end in a somewhat perfunctory way.  The last seven minutes or so are not the greatest. 

Hmm, are you a guy? Just askin'…

Also, I think Castle explained why he spilled the beans. Did I catch something that wasn't there? Again?

And… I’ve got something to show you. It’s a secret.
November 20, 2012
10:24 pm
JohannaB
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jessann0908 said
LOVED this episode – my favorite so far. The case and 'twist' were plausible and not overdone, the humor and banter was back and again not overdone, their feelings and vulnerabilities were out in the open, the hug near the end was absolute PERFECTION. My only tiny flaw was the kiss – the dialogue leading up to it was great where they were both maybe stilll a little 'mad', a little frustrated, but mostly concerned for each other's safety and that love/concern won out with the kiss  – but the actual physical execution of the kiss seemed a little off, like they mashed mouths or something… needed 'take 2' for the kiss !! But still the best episode and the best show !!!

I thought it was a little awkward but played in really well to the circumstances. They were scared, HE was scared, but he wanted to reassure her, they didn't know if they would ever see each other again… In the end, I thought it was just right.popcorn

ETA: Just a smidgen desperate…

And… I’ve got something to show you. It’s a secret.
November 20, 2012
10:24 pm
wepprop
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PenguinOfTroy said

Ok, I was going to wait until I had a second chance to watch the episode before posting my thoughts, but I've decided to get them down now and then come back later and (hopefully) yell at myself for being an idiot but…

 

I was disappointed by this episode.

There was a lot in it that I loved. And probably when I rewatch I'll realize that I liked or loved 99% of the episode and this one thing (which I'll explain in a second) has clouded what was a better episode than I'm giving it credit for.

Here's the thing: I love Kate Beckett. She is my favorite character on the show (by far). But I didn't like Kate Beckett last night. Because she wasn't the character that I've come to know and love. And I'm not talking about her insecurities regarding Castle. She is a spaz in her personal life and I thought her questions were totally warranted.

However, Kate Beckett is not a spaz in her professional life. She is a tough, savvy, competent and trained COP. But in last night's episode she was, for me, a damsel in distress. And I can't figure out if it was the writing or the acting or even the directing.

The Kate Beckett I know and love wouldn't panic the way she did when they were stranded. She wouldn't have looked like a terrified little girl when they talked to the guy overhead. She wouldn't have looked like a deer in the headlights when talking to the cabbie. 

Good analysis, well written, and you may be right. But I didn't see it the same way. I attributed Kate discomfort to being responsible for two people, both nominally dependent on her for protection, while she had no tangible means of providing that protection. And Castle's attempts to 'help' just made things worse by exposing them to danger all the longer. I may be wrong, but that's how I took it.

On the other hand, I think I would have liked the episode greater if they had had a definite goal, a place they knew was safe that they were trying to get to, a la 'The Warriors', rather than just wandering around in a one block radius. But that's a nit, they covered the dramatic points they had to to make the episode work.

Oh, and why does just about every review and recap I've read online say they were wandering around in Brooklyn when they quite clearly said they were in the Bronx?

November 20, 2012
10:26 pm
He-Touches-Things
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JohannaB said

Toronto said
I liked the episode, but I do think they are still working out how to make the Castle-Beckett banter work better. It is still pretty jerky.  And I agree with others that Beckett's insecurity is somewhat overworked -- the reason is not that it is overworked in terms of being used too often, it is because it doesn't really work on screen, we get impatient with it -- it's that Beckett is more interesting when she is working from strength: there is something in the insecure Beckett that doesn't really work (and here I don't find Stana's acting this way works very well -- and I think she is a great actress -- it undermines her energy somehow).  (And personally, I just don't believe that a woman like Beckett, who essentially has her pick of any man in the world, just thinks of herself as a mere cop in a relationship with a world famous guy.  What ever happened to the Beckett of the first season who didn't really give a rat's ass who he or anyone was -- she had the power.  She still does. I have this desperate hope that she will tell him to get F***** lost. Then their relationship will get much more interesting.) 

 

I would be interested to be a fly on the wall when Beckett asks Castle how come he spilled the beans about where she and the witness were hiding.  That was kind of dumb on his part. 

 

The coded message in the telephone has been done before……Not to mention the shooting into an empty car routine. Come on, writers, a bit more imagination please. There seems to be a tendency in the episodes recently to get everyone into a complex situation and then ride out the end in a somewhat perfunctory way.  The last seven minutes or so are not the greatest. 

Hmm, are you a guy? Just askin'…

Also, I think Castle explained why he spilled the beans. Did I catch something that wasn't there? Again?

He didn't "spill the beans" – Mickey just read his face under questioning.

Season VII - Sept. 29, 10:01PM In the FPOTZ
November 20, 2012
10:33 pm
JohannaB
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FireflyCastlefan007 said

Temp77 said
There's not much I can add which hasn't been said already! I loved the episode from beginning to end and there's nothing in it which I would choose to criticise! 

 

As a MacGyver fan in my youth I loved the MacGyver reference! grin

 

Having spent 2 years of my school years at a Catholic school I loved Ryan's comments on going to a Catholic school and how the nun ended up intimidating the combat trained Esposito! gringrin

 

As a lawyer and a baseball fan I had to laugh at Jim's comments during the dinner scene! gringringrin

 

As a Caskett fan I loved the hug, the kiss, the banter and just about everything else Castle and Beckett did and talked about during the episode! gringringringrin

 

Yeah i loved all of that too. I want to know how a game where at any point someone can steal a base or make a run for home plate can be called boring.  No boring is a badly acted play where I don't care about any of the characters,now that puts me to sleep.

LOL.

And… I’ve got something to show you. It’s a secret.
November 20, 2012
10:34 pm
wepprop
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He-Touches-Things said

He didn't "spill the beans" – Mickey just read his face under questioning.

I've looked closely and I can't spot 'the tell.' If there is one, and someone identifies it, please let us know.

November 20, 2012
10:37 pm
SunnyChanceOfAssKicking
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Shena said

PenguinOfTroy said
I was disappointed by this episode…

Here's the thing: I love Kate Beckett. She is my favorite character on the show (by far). But I didn't like Kate Beckett last night. Because she wasn't the character that I've come to know and love. And I'm not talking about her insecurities regarding Castle. She is a spaz in her personal life and I thought her questions were totally warranted.

However, Kate Beckett is not a spaz in her professional life. She is a tough, savvy, competent and trained COP. But in last night's episode she was, for me, a damsel in distress. And I can't figure out if it was the writing or the acting or even the directing….

Warranted observation, Penguin... personally, I just saw it as her being frazzled by the tension between her and Castle.

Agreed. Nearly everything she did seemed to be colored by her preoccupation with the Castle stuff. Even her parking in the bad neighborhood against perhaps her better judgement. She seemed to be purposely picking a fight with Castle who thought they should have taken the subway just to take out her frustration about the way things went down. 

Again, I think the episode was constantly trying to balance Beckett the worried girl and Beckett the super cop, and I guess the two mixed a little, which to me is realistic to a certain extent. You can't always compartmentalize. That's always been a struggle/flaw of Beckett, trying to steady her emotions about Castle, her mom, etc to do her job. 

(And also, just one note, the time when they're standing by the door and they're held up by the mobsters, I believe Beckett was purposely playing damsel in distress so she could take them by surprise. At first I was like 'wtf Beckett why do you sound so frail' then 'wham kick butt'.)

CASTLE: A Buddhist walks up to a hot dog vendor. Vendor says “What can I get you, pal?” The Buddhist says, "Make me one with everything." 

The guy says that’ll be two fifty. The Buddhist hands him a five and asks for change. The guy just smiles and says “Change comes from within.”

 

November 20, 2012
10:40 pm
FireflyCastlefan007
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JohannaB said

FireflyCastlefan007 said

Temp77 said
There's not much I can add which hasn't been said already! I loved the episode from beginning to end and there's nothing in it which I would choose to criticise! 

 

As a MacGyver fan in my youth I loved the MacGyver reference! grin

 

Having spent 2 years of my school years at a Catholic school I loved Ryan's comments on going to a Catholic school and how the nun ended up intimidating the combat trained Esposito! gringrin

 

As a lawyer and a baseball fan I had to laugh at Jim's comments during the dinner scene! gringringrin

 

As a Caskett fan I loved the hug, the kiss, the banter and just about everything else Castle and Beckett did and talked about during the episode! gringringringrin

 

Yeah i loved all of that too. I want to know how a game where at any point someone can steal a base or make a run for home plate can be called boring.  No boring is a badly acted play where I don't care about any of the characters,now that puts me to sleep.

LOL.

 

Don't get me wrong i like Shakespeare as much as the next guy but someone who has been in as many plays as Martha really shouldn't be calling Baseball boring. You just know she has done some really bad plays in the past.

Nora:You were shot five times in the Tabloids. Nick:That's a lie! He never got near my Tabloids. beckettincloset2.jpg
November 20, 2012
10:42 pm
He-Touches-Things
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wepprop said

He-Touches-Things said

He didn't "spill the beans" – Mickey just read his face under questioning.

I've looked closely and I can't spot 'the tell.' If there is one, and someone identifies it, please let us know.

The way the scene was played, it was obvious that Mickey could pick up on subtleties that no one else could catch. Either that or he was just lucky. Nah…

Season VII - Sept. 29, 10:01PM In the FPOTZ
November 20, 2012
10:46 pm
JohannaB
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RicardoCastelo said
Great  episode. The best since After the Storm, hands down.

I have to put this out of my chest, though:  this story didn’t always has been kind to Castle (the character). More than once he was rendered as a shallow, unreliable, egotistical, undependable and feeble sort of guy, a rich spoiled brat. A “self-centered jackass” to cut a long story short.

This is so unfair.

In an episode like After Hours the true Castle’s nature becomes evident. If I have to call him something I would say he is a man with a big heart, an optimistic heart, a believer. A man with a strong heart too, a courageous one. As far as I can see, he is, by now, the relationship solid ground. Castle is not perfect for sure, but he is extremely moving. His uttermost disposition to have faith turns out to be his fundamental strength. In people, in convictions, in ideas, in feelings. Even when that isn’t clearly the wisest thing to do. Castle his by far my favorite character in the show.      

Every now and then, wandering in Castle universe, I just can’t help recollecting Jimmy Stewart’s character in Frank Capra’s “Mr. Smith Goes to Washington”. A naïve, credulous, somewhat silly, childish guy, overlooked by many, with an unmovable and finally victorious faith in decency and righteousness. Faith is the key word again.

 

I don’t know, of course, where AM is going to take this story, but if the general idea is to make this relationship and this show work out, then the only thing he has to do is to remain faithful to Castle’s character and the way he sees the world around him. That’s all.  

I agree. And yet… Unfortunately life just isn't always that simple. We're so blessed – but for so many people life is not such a rosy thing, no matter how essentially optimistic you are. But I believe this story is meant to be a happy one: "Look at my life. My dreams come true." And that's where I want to be, at least for one hour every Monday night… hair

And… I’ve got something to show you. It’s a secret.
November 20, 2012
10:49 pm
lvncastle
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He-Touches-Things said

wepprop said

He-Touches-Things said

He didn't "spill the beans" – Mickey just read his face under questioning.

I've looked closely and I can't spot 'the tell.' If there is one, and someone identifies it, please let us know.

The way the scene was played, it was obvious that Mickey could pick up on subtleties that no one else could catch. Either that or he was just lucky. Nah…

I saw Castle's eyes flick just a bit where they'd been steady with the other suggestions.

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