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Ep 13 – Post Episode Discussion

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10:08 am
January 19, 2010


Sandy (aka newsjunkie)

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 290

dmcw, I agree with you 100%–I definitely didn't get a "brother/sister" vibe at all. Pulling the pigtails was definitely an acknowledgment of romantic feelings and I also agree there is much more intimacy between them now.

Watching it again on hulu and still wowed by the whole thing.

"Shut the front door!" "No time for dirty talk, go get changed."

10:23 am
January 19, 2010


wynnara

Vancouver, Canada

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 116

Castle said:

Ok – those of you complaining about the last scene need to go and watch Anne of Green Gables – everyone knows that when a boy pulls a girls pigtails it means he likes her!! I think Beckett & Castle are both admitting this in this scene.

It's a big step forward….you just missed it :)


Well, I think Beckett has known for awhile that Castle's interested in her… he hasn't exactly gone out of his way to hide it… but I think in the beginning she would've seen it as Castle flirting with anything remotely female–which he probably did–and dismissed his gestures across the board or simply given him the brush off… her acknowledging and being okay with Castle's interest in her is something that feels new… for some reason I'm reminded of a cat that keeps coming back no matter how many times you throw them out of the house… except now, instead of slamming the door and leaving the cat to continue searching for its own way in again, she's maybe leaving that door open just a crack… it's not quite standing at the door calling, "Here kitty, kitty" but it's definitely progress.

On a side note, I've been re-watching that last scene–because I'm a big schmuck–and anyone else notice the expression on her face while she's reading Montgomery's report? She just looks so touched and maybe a bit awed at this brave, bumbling civillian…

 

10:28 am
January 19, 2010


CastleMuse

Castle Groupie

posts 26

Hi everyone Wave

I've been a fan of the show since the beginning, but wasn't introduced to this place until about a week ago. So I hope you don't mind if I jump right into discussion. I credit this ep for bringing me out of lurkdom.

Maybe the ending being rushed was intentional, supporting the hurried pace happening in the hostage scene and underscoring how Beckett had no time to think. As someone said, I think she was acting on pure instinct. This is the man she had been searching for for 10 years. The "Joker" to her Batman that made her what she is. Would she have reacted the same way were it someone other than Castle in danger? I'd like think she would have thought more with her head than her heart. Then again, no one else would have tried to head butt a man holding them at gunpoint lol. But beside the point, Beckett is not a person who lets adrenaline get the best of her. She's meticulous about cases so there isn't a crack for a perp to walk, and like a cat she carefully stalks her prey before she pounces. So I have to believe that she would have aimed elsewhere to perhaps wound the guy and take him down, but no. She shot him square in the 10 ring b/c I think she was damned to let that creep take away one more person she truly cares about.

Re: the "closure" scene-I felt satisfied. The case is not closed…the people responsible for the hit on her mother are still at large. Thus I felt to have lingered longer on the scene would have been unnecessary. We saw the realization that Beckett had sacrificed her only lead hit her like a ton of bricks. She was desperately trying to revive her mother's killer as the entire precinct watched. Her hands covered in his cold blood, and her normally guarded interior was completely exposed. Castle's simple gesture of putting a hand on her shoulder let her know she's not alone in that moment, or anymore-and she accepts that. Accepts him in her life, even needs him. It was a beautiful moment that nicely complimented that theme all throughout the episode.

The last scene was a perfect ending. I too would have loved a hug, but they're not quite there yet. Their relationship has I think in the last couple episodes, crossed over the threshold of something indefinable to something real. So for Beckett to have said what she said (that she wants him with her, and to be there when she closes her mother's case), and for Castle to have done what he did (be whatever she needed-financial support, emotional support, her faithful sidekick )…was huge progress imo. She's willingly opening doors to him, and maybe where Castle was once selfish in his motives to pursue Kate's past-he was all about her in Sucker Punch. Loved the parallel to the season 2 opener where he apologizes, except this time she didn't have to prompt him. I can't wait to see where C/B's relationship goes from here.

Lastly Martha giving Beckett a hug! I adore scenes where Beckett bonds with Castle's significant others-as if she's being welcomed into their adorable dysfunctional family. I do wish they would have allowed Alexis to give her a hug too, but can't have everything.

I do believe I've gone on Embarassed, thanks for reading!

-Muse

11:06 am
January 19, 2010


Seriously?

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 399

I loved this episode! Stana was utterly amazing last night. She is able to potray emotion so ridiculously well. Why she isn't a bigger star, I have no idea. She also look looked amazing in this episode. The hair pulled back makes her look younger and softer.
Looking back, I agree that the last 15 minutes or so were just a bit rushed, but that was a small thing fo rme. I absolutely loved this episode.
Esposito & Ryan were cracking me up. I love those two.
I am as big a Caskett shipper as they come and I still thought it was great. I would have liked them to at least hug, but overall, I was very happy with where this is headed. So long as they don't try to stretch out the attraction over an unreasonable period of time and throw the world's dumbest road blocks in their way, I will be happy.
I certainly don't get a brother/sister vibe from those two. At all.
This is the thing: I think Castle & Kate are showing a more mature love of one another. Sure, Castle has flirted shamelessly with her and he plays with her, but this isn't just about sex. There has been a fairly steady build. I do want more this season, not a full on relationship, however, I thought it was handled beautifully. You see that these are two people who ultimately respect and genuinely care for one another. Most important to point out is that they're acting like adults. Not children, not teenagers with a first love, actual adults. I find it all very sweet.
Again, I want them to move forward, I want more shippy goodness, but for me, last night's episode was pretty damn perfect.

Real Detectives Wear Heels – visit us at http://fashion.castletv.net/ or on Twitter @CastleFashion

11:18 am
January 19, 2010


TheBeckettOnion

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 82

Squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!

I'll post a more coherent version of my feelings later…
Squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!

It's like the circus! But with alcohol! Why haven't I been here?

You should see some of the clubs I've been to.

11:24 am
January 19, 2010


Camila Bacellar

Guest

I completely agree with castlemuse. Great review!

I 've just re-watched the last scene and I noticed that, just after they stop talking, Castle reaches for Kate's sight with a silly smile in his face, and she kindda avoids it, but in a shy way. It was so cute, the whole non-verbal messages exchanged between them.

This definitely isn't a brother/sister vibe. She is letting him in, and she is vunarable. I think the whole construction of the last scene is showing us that she is vunarable. The clothing (lighter) the hair, her face… everything. And Castle shows the entire time that he'll do whatever she wants him to do (no jokes, "your sectret if safe with me"). There's romance going on people, maybe more than a misplaced hug could represent.

11:27 am
January 19, 2010


Sandy (aka newsjunkie)

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 290

So, watching the episode again (it's an editing day here at work so I'm stuck in front of the computer all day) and something struck me watching Beckett as Lanie and Dr. Death walk up to her desk. I think it was "Vampire Weekend" where she has to call the victim's family and she tells Castle that it's the part she hates… "The phone call that changes everything." Watching that scene, knowing what was coming but also knowing that Beckett didn't yet know what was coming… wow. Put her on the other end of the "phone call" (of course she'd been there before but this wasn't how she ever envisioned it coming up again) and it was truly amazingly done.

One tiny thing that bothered me about the epi–NO law enforcement agent would slice open a package with an unknown substance in it and taste some of it. But I kinda think that was sort of a tongue-in-cheek scene to mock other shows where that's done. And it did not take anything away from the rest of the episode at all. I LOVED how they handled the transactional immunity and plea deal, although not 100% technically correct I liked that they didn't just let Beckett make the deal, since detectives don't have that power, only the prosecutor can make a binding offer.

"Shut the front door!" "No time for dirty talk, go get changed."

11:59 am
January 19, 2010


sunshine_minx

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 120

I think i remember sitting on my couch watching it and when he yelled after her 'Kate'…I may or may not have squealed a bit. :) I think there was a squeal. WOW, was that episode ever GOOD. *whew*

12:03 pm
January 19, 2010


bobesb

Guest

[Also new to the board]

THough it was a good but not great episode.  In particular, the scene with her dad was weak – mostly the writing but also a little of the acting interaction.  It just did not seem too natural

12:28 pm
January 19, 2010


molly_littlecastle

Southeast USA

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 491

Wow, that ending was intensive, the part where castle is being taken hostage.

Well I guess it wasn't this episode where they find her mother's killer, but hopefully maybe soon.

I think i remember sitting on my couch watching it and when he yelled after her 'Kate'…I may or may not have squealed a bit.

sunshine_mix, yea I was just about to cry at that point too. He's so caring.

*squeal* Ha, ha, next week is the one about the spiders and maybe the snake makes its debut. LOL

Castle: Just waiting for my partner. Maybe you've seen her, pretty girl, thinks she can leap tall buildings in a single bound,

carries the weight of the world on her shoulders, yet still manages to laugh at some of my jokes. 

Beckett: She sounds like a handful.

Castle: Tell me about it. Anyway…if you do see her, tell her she owns me….about 100 coffees. 

~~ 04x09 "Kill Shot" ~~

—————————————————————————
*Avatar by SKB*
Tumblr/Twitter  :)

12:33 pm
January 19, 2010


monique

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 81

I'm kinda mixed on this one. Why did Kate even go to Castle's place? the scence was so short as to be slmost useless. It could have been a good "bonding" opportunity for them. I thought the whole thing about catching her killer would have been a bigger deal. The mobster plot was convoluted, simple is better for an important episode like this. Hope they revisit the whole issue and tie up some loose ends.

I'll of course have to watch the episode again to catch all the subtle details!

12:36 pm
January 19, 2010


Seriously?

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 399

Well I guess it wasn't this episode where they find her mother's killer, but hopefully maybe soon.

——-

Well if I'm not mistaken, we did technically find the killer. At least the one who carried out the hit anyway. What we're really waiting on is the WHY as well as WHO ordered it.

Real Detectives Wear Heels – visit us at http://fashion.castletv.net/ or on Twitter @CastleFashion

12:46 pm
January 19, 2010


Bren Williams/Lady Brenlis

United States

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 167

I would have loved to see a little more of Beckett reacting to Dick's death. I loved how Ryan & Esposito show up, adored the song, loved everything about Castle (as always) but after she pulls back, my imagination wants to know where she goes from there. I love the song from that scene. The music on this show is awesome!

Back to subtext, in that last scene, which I LOVED, It definitely moved the relationship along, first she admits she likes it when he pulls her pig tails. But let's not dismiss there was a whole lot of eye contact going on at the end! The pairings that share the longest eye contact with each other are mothers and babies and couples in love. [squee!] Beckett said what she needs to say, and he is staring at her, and she does not avoid returning that eye contact. That whole interaction had to have made his day.

Scott Paulin was awesome as Jim Beckett. (Great resemblance, imo.) I always wondered how they'd play a dad who's a recovering alcoholic. I'm glad they spun it this way.

Someone commented on the bartender calling KB castle's wife, and you got it the wrong way around, he was referring to Castle as Beckett's "wife!" Hilarious! He didn't "butch up" quite enough!

How did Castle overstep? That was his reasoning when he said he was going to withdraw.

What did Beckett call Castle in the car? Molly comes out looking for them, and Beckett says to him, "No, no, no, don't honk, ___ you'll spook her." It sounds like, "deep throat" to me, but that can't be right.

What's up with Beckett's baggy shirt pinned in back? Last minute wardrobe issue? Anyone else notice? It appears the coat she wears to the diner is identical to her red one.

What was it Molly said to Beckett? Asked her if she'd ever fallen for a bad boy type? And Beckett's response is dry, "No comment." Yeah, she's been attracted to the bad boy type, but she's not going to admit that in front of him is she?

Castlemuse, you really have a way with words. But that wasn't her only lead in finding who ordered Johanna's death. There's the four linked murders. They haven't even begun to look into that.

It was nice to see I was right about guessing the killer would have special forces experience, something I'd gathered working on a fan fiction. Although now that this episode's out I'll be back to the drawing board in some respects.

12:56 pm
January 19, 2010


Seriously?

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 399

You heard correctly, she called him Deep Throat. I laughed out loud at that one. Loved it.

Real Detectives Wear Heels – visit us at http://fashion.castletv.net/ or on Twitter @CastleFashion

1:02 pm
January 19, 2010


molly_littlecastle

Southeast USA

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 491

What did Beckett call Castle in the car? Molly comes out looking for them, and Beckett says to him, "No, no, no, don't honk, ___ you'll spook her." It sounds like, "deep throat" to me, but that can't be right.

Lady Brenlis, yea that's what she says.

What was it Molly said to Beckett? Asked her if she'd ever fallen for a bad boy type? And Beckett's response is dry, "No comment." Yeah, she's been attracted to the bad boy type, but she's not going to admit that in front of him is she?

Molly said, "what, you're telling me you never had a thing for bad boys, Kate?"
I remember Castle's expression when molly said that, Castle was probably thinking "what me, bad boy, yea right!?" hehe

Castle: Just waiting for my partner. Maybe you've seen her, pretty girl, thinks she can leap tall buildings in a single bound,

carries the weight of the world on her shoulders, yet still manages to laugh at some of my jokes. 

Beckett: She sounds like a handful.

Castle: Tell me about it. Anyway…if you do see her, tell her she owns me….about 100 coffees. 

~~ 04x09 "Kill Shot" ~~

—————————————————————————
*Avatar by SKB*
Tumblr/Twitter  :)

1:12 pm
January 19, 2010


Sandy (aka newsjunkie)

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 290

Yes, she called him "Deep Throat," which for those who don't know was the code name of the man who gave Woodward and Bernstein information while they were breaking the Watergate case. It's been a standard nickname for informants or covert operatives ever since.

As for the "wife" thing in the bar, at first I thought he was referring to Castle as Beckett's wife but upon watching it a few more times today he is clearly looking at Castle as he says "you and your wife" so I think sarah had it right in her post.

"Shut the front door!" "No time for dirty talk, go get changed."

1:17 pm
January 19, 2010


Van's Castle

Guest

I love this show and I loved this episode.  However, I do agree that it was a bit underdone.  I thought Kate and Lanie should have had more of a best friend moment considering the gravity of the situation.  I loved the concern on Lanie's face when she knew the connection to Kate's mother's murder.  I just thought it should have been introduced much earlier in the episode or the episode should've been stretched into two parts.  I would've like to have seen her really go through the stages of having to face her mother's death again…..(breaking down in the elevator, curled up in bed, looking through old pics).  I loved that her dad made it okay for her to re-open those wounds and the hug from Martha was so right on.  (Maybe Martha and Beckett's dad will hook up.)

 Her going to Castle's home, however brief, spoke volumes.  There is already the bound, it's just a matter of making it legit.  I personally love the anticipation of it all and I am satisfied that the writers are taking their time in putting them into bed.  The ending was especially moving.  I  disagree that there was supposed to be touching.  That's not allowed yet and Castle doesn't want to take any chances there.  I think she said what she needed to say considering all that he had done, even the money.  That's his girl.  We know it.  We know it everytime he makes her coffee…when he brings her coffee in the morning…when he offered up the $100, 000……we knew it when he showed up with the food at the end of the episode.  I think the only person who doesn't know it is Kate. 

1:40 pm
January 19, 2010


Jamz

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 2641

Everyone has pretty much touched on what I loved but I have to single out some things.

The bar scene where Castle puts the whole pickled egg in his mouth only to cough it up was so damn funny. And the look she gives him is priceless.

TV Guide might have picked Nathan as the one to watch this episode but Stana steals the show hands down. The facial expressions, the vulnerablity, the delivery of lines was perfect. I can't say enough about her performance tonight. I'm going to stop now or I'll never stop.

The hug from Martha and the expression on Alexis face when she's dragged from the room was spot on.

I was so happy to learn that Lainie went to Dr. Murray with her information and not Castle. Watching the promo and the looks exchanged between Castle and Lainie I was afraid she approached him first.

Castle calling her Kate melted my heart.

I'd like a hug or kiss as much as the next person but these writers give us just a little bit more each episode that the wait is so going to be worth it. Stana and Nathan have such amazing chemistry that just a couple looks can express so much more than any words the writers could come up with.

I love that he gave her the space and she returned the favor by going to his house. Maybe the scene could have been longer but the message was sent.

I can't wait to find out why a contract killer was hired to kill her mother. Strange no one asked that in this episode but I trust the writers in this story progression. They haven't failed us yet.

I will never admit how many times I've watched the last scene. It was such a huge step in the relationship with her admitting she wants him around because he makes the job a little more fun. And how she's used to him pulling her pigtails. If that's not an admission of feelings/love then I don't know what is. Those lines and looks between the two were better than a kiss or hug at this stage.

http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab297/Beckett76/Castle%20Sigs/6.png

Banner/Icon by: petal of roses

 

1:53 pm
January 19, 2010


franckie45

Castle Groupie

posts 9

One of the most interesting thing in this episode is that Kate said in episode 1 of season 2 that she couldn't handle it if the guy who killed her mother would cut a deal and he'd be back in the streets. But she accepts to make a deal with Coonan and he gets to walk away … well not really because he ends up dead. I found it interesting and it just one of the many mysteries the man kind.

Castle: Whoa! There's an app for that !!!

1:59 pm
January 19, 2010


Rvandsing (St Louis area)

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 275

Sandy said:

Yes, she called him "Deep Throat," which for those who don't know was the code name of the man who gave Woodward and Bernstein information while they were breaking the Watergate case. It's been a standard nickname for informants or covert operatives ever since.

As for the "wife" thing in the bar, at first I thought he was referring to Castle as Beckett's wife but upon watching it a few more times today he is clearly looking at Castle as he says "you and your wife" so I think sarah had it right in her post.


I agree that the bar keeper is looking at Castle, but I believe he is responding/talking to Beckett…meaning he's looking right at Castle and calling him Beckett's Wife.  In other words, when he says "you and your wife"–the "you" is chatting to Beckett with the "your wife" directed at Castle as he's looking right at him.  The "looking right at Castle" part while he says "your wife" is intended to heighten the insult. 

Rvandsing — North side of 60 and proud of it — Cubs Fan forever

2:20 pm
January 19, 2010


Bren Williams/Lady Brenlis

United States

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 167

Which completely pays off the "Butch up a little" line. Castle hadn't uttered a word. He wasn't part of the conversation. The barkeep was talking to Beckett.

Sandy, Thanks for explaining the "Deep Throat" remark. The only connotation I had from that term comes from nonPG Porn!

2:47 pm
January 19, 2010


Bren Williams/Lady Brenlis

United States

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 167

And Beckett doesn't seem to realize, she's not dead in the water at finding the person who ordered her mom's death. The info Castle found in the Season 1 finale? Three other murders about the same time. Remember that?

1. Lawyer from a non profit
2. A former law student of hers.
3. A documents clerk.

It doesn't take much imagination to see how the four murders could be linked, ordered by the same person at the same time. I expect they'll be following up on that somewhere around the season finale.

3:14 pm
January 19, 2010


CastleMuse

Castle Groupie

posts 26

Lady_Brenlis: Castlemuse, you really have a way with words. But that wasn't her only lead in finding who ordered Johanna's death. There's the four linked murders. They haven't even begun to look into that.

Thank you Smile' class='wp-smiley' /> And you are so right..they do have the other 4. I should have said "best" lead.

3:22 pm
January 19, 2010


Sandy (aka newsjunkie)

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 290

My Quote and Reply isn't working for some reason but rvandsing and Lady Brenlis, you could be right about the "wife" line, as I said I saw it the way you interpret it at first. Either way, neither of them said anything about it so it was a definite warm fuzzy moment for me.

And the nickname "Deep Throat" in the Watergate context came from the porn movie. He was what is called a "deep cover source" and someone in the newsroom came up with the nickname. And the rest, as they say, is history.

"Shut the front door!" "No time for dirty talk, go get changed."

4:06 pm
January 19, 2010


sarah_darling

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 1626

Just to clarify, the whole point of the "no one responding to the wife comment" is just that. No response. No Castle looking butt hurt (upset) for being called the wife, no smirk from KB. Nothing. No matter who was being called the wife, there was no response. That's the point I was making.

Becklers do it with the beckle on.

http://www.swagbucks.com/refer…..rahdarling

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