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Ep 13 – Post Episode Discussion

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4:55 pm
January 19, 2010


Paladin

Castle Groupie

posts 26

The finest compliment you can give an actor is to say that you forgot. You forgot it was a performance and just fell into the presence of being in the moment.

At the end of Episode 13, I forgot I was watching Stana Katic. It was just Kate Beckett, detective for the New York City Police Department going thru maybe the toughest moment she's ever gone thru since her mother was killed.
It was simply the finest performance I've seen from an actress in maybe a decade.

5:23 pm
January 19, 2010


Bren Williams/Lady Brenlis

United States

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 167

So what do you all think Castle meant when he said he overstepped his bounds?

5:59 pm
January 19, 2010


musiclover

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 1486

This episode was great I liked how Castle stood up for Kate and tried to give Coonan the money i'm glad Kate shot Coonan but the only question now is how will the NYPD find out who hired Coonan to kill Johanna Beckett. Lady Brenlis Castle probably meant he should of paid the guy off.

6:10 pm
January 19, 2010


wynnara

Vancouver, Canada

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 116

Lady Brenlis said:

So what do you all think Castle meant when he said he overstepped his bounds?


When Coonan took Castle hostage he basically presented Beckett with two options… either they shoot Coonan (which may or may not include Coonan killing Castle before he goes down) or they let Coonan walk out of there and presumably Castle gets to live (although who knows, Coonan could've killed Castle out of spite)… if they shot Coonan however they'd loose their lead and Castle knew that the way things were playing out shooting Coonan was very likely. That I think is what his headshake was about–him trying to tell Beckett to not let this go, no matter what danger he happened to be in.

Thus what I think Castle was attempting to do is give Beckett a third option… one where he sufficiently stuns Coonan so that they can recapture him without anyone having to get shot. Near as I can tell, this was completely his idea and thus when it backfires and his move ultimately forces Beckett to kill Coonan in order to save Castle's life, Castle feels extraordinarily guilty. That I think is what he meant when he said he overstepped… he wanted to hand Coonan to Beckett so he could give her that all important lead, but he failed.

 

6:12 pm
January 19, 2010


Graffiti

Castle Groupie

posts 37

To be honest, I was a little scared of the outcome of the writers bringing in this very crucial point into the show so soon.

But they pulled off perfectly in my opinion!
We know who killed her mother, but not who ordered her to be killed, as well as so many amazing moments in the ep! <3

Whole episode was fantastic! Can't wait for next week! Love

"Damnit Castle you make me so excited for Mondays- I almost hate the weekend!" -Me

6:19 pm
January 19, 2010


lmr32385

Naperville, IL

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 271

I think everyone has pretty much said what I think about the episode. I enjoyed it very much and just LOVED the scene at the end. When Castle called Beckett by her first name, it reminded me of The X-Files and how Mulder and Scully right from the pilot episode started calling each other by their last names and it wasn't until some episodes in that they used each other's first names. I guess in a way Castle and Beckett's relationship reminds me of Mulder and Scully's relationship. Also, when Deep Throat was mentioned, all I could think about was The X-Files once again. Bounce2

Now I really want to know who hired the guy and why.

Well, it seems to me that the best relationships–the ones that last–are frequently the ones that are rooted in friendship. You know, one day you look at the person and you see something more than you did the night before. Like a switch has been flicked somewhere. And the person who was just a friend is…suddenly the only person you can ever imagine yourself with. ~Dana Scully 

 

Whoever hired you, he can't hide from me. ~Beckett

No sweetheart. You got it ass-backwards. You can't hide from him. ~Lockwood

 

Don't be stupid. You can't hide her from us. From me. ~Lockwood

You got that ass-backwards, boy. You can't hide from me. ~Montgomery

Icon made by reema_patel

6:43 pm
January 19, 2010


wolf-fire

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 62

Castlemuse, I agree with you 100%. You said all the things that I was trying to say, but failed at doing because I was still so excited after watching the episode. :)

Going to watch the episode again now. *heads to the kitchen for popcorn*

7:03 pm
January 19, 2010


MathGuy

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 110

Paladin said: The finest compliment you can give an actor is to say that you forgot. You forgot it was a performance and just fell into the presence of being in the moment.

At the end of Episode 13, I forgot I was watching Stana Katic. It was just Kate Beckett, detective for the New York City Police Department going thru maybe the toughest moment she's ever gone thru since her mother was killed.
It was simply the finest performance I've seen from an actress in maybe a decade.

As spot-on Nathan Fillion's performance was, as well as all the supporting and guest performances too, I completely agree with Paladin. If Stana Katic is not nominated for an Emmy and doesn't win it for that performance…then there is no justice (or the ones who decide this honor simply didn't see her work in Sucker Punch). She looked like she completely lived through all those emotions that she portrayed and I felt them too.

I'm working here until a good fast food job opens up!

7:14 pm
January 19, 2010


Beckett2.0

Castle Groupie

posts 28

Can I just say how much I loved this episode?

I agree with what some of you had said, I wished they would have introduced the point about the tie to JoHanna's murder a little bit sooner, but alas there are only 40-ish minutes to do story telling and they needed to explain how they got to Coonan as the killer. But still–I loved it all.

Stana's performance was spectacular. The last five minutes were just amazing. I didn't get teary-eyed from watching until this morning when I was rewatching it. Last night I was simply blown away by her performance and it wasn't until the second viewing that I was truly able to absorb the severity of the situation for Beckett as a character that she was trying to save the man who killed her mother; whom she just shot.

Brilliantly written and brilliantly acted (on all accounts). This show truly gets better and better every week.

7:36 pm
January 19, 2010


neodnut

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 443

Everyone has pretty much wrapped up how I feel in a nutshell. I agree with the earlier introduction. I LOVED that Beckett finally pulled her hair back! I'm so confused every week when she shows up with a different version of wearing her hair down. I thought she looked really pretty with it back.
The one point I didn't like was that I KNEW Coonan was the killer and generally Castle to me is (for the most part) unpredictable. I was able to predict this.

When he called her Kate I was SO excited! Even though I felt the emotion Stana was portraying (she DID so incredibly, breathtakingly fabulous by the way) I still managed to emit a "HE CALLED HER KATE!!Bounce2"

In regards to the "you and your wife" comment, when I first watched it I had assumed he was talking about Castle because he was conversing with Beckett. Also I think this is what drove Castle to eat and start choking! Haha!

I feel almost like Beckett had decided to kill him and that's why she asked Montgomery to put down his gun. Maybe she wanted to be the one to kill him and knew it was just a matter of time before she was forced to do so. After Beckett had just fired the shot and was trying to save him, I really wanted Castle to just hug her…but that would've been both too soon and out of character (I want this to build and take as long as possible before happening.) That Castle donated the money was incredibly sweet as well. This episode had one of the cutest final scenes I think I've ever seen. The past two weeks have been amazing!!!!! Here's to a great one next week as well!

"I think there's nothing sexier than swordplay." -Stana Katic

8:12 pm
January 19, 2010


wolf-fire

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 62

Other comments/things I caught/ect. after re-watching the episode.

Castle and Esposito: "I own a boat!" I just about died laughing.

Beckett has gone from forcing Castle to stay in the car (handcuffs) to asking him if he's really sure that he wants to come in. Major progress.

Beckett saying to the bartender "It's not like I'm asking you to cough up-" just when Castle starts to spit out the egg. Perfect timing.

Castle: "Well… Maybe instead of using a stiletto he was wearing stilettos…"

When they realize that the last two digits from a number in Coonan's phone are missing, Castle comments that that's 99 possibilities and that they'd better get looking. "Ryan, I'm looking at you." Poor Ryan is always stuck with the boring work that takes forever. Even in "Heat Wave" his character looks over the same surveillance video about six times.

Beckett (to Ryan in reference to the infomercial dvds): "Put it back…"

Castle's response to Beckett tasting the heroine. "Yeah. That was very Miami Vice." XD

Beckett: Which means someone on this end had to know which boxes contained the drugs…
Ryan: *rubbing a dvd box lovingly* And which boxes contained to secret to financial independence… *sees the stares he's getting* …What?

Ryan: *starts kicking off his shoes so he can walk across the hot coals*
Esposito: Don't even think about taking them off. If you do, I will pepper spray you.

The guy that played Johnny Vohng[sp?] did a great job. The accent was awesome, and his reaction in the interrogation room were believable. When he's telling Beckett that he'd rather take his chances in jail, you can actually hear his breath hitching.

Castle: There has to be a way to get it out of him… We could make him watch Paris Hilton videos!
Beckett: You want me brought up on charges?

Beckett: And if you tell anyone what I'm about to say, there's going to be another shooting…

Absolutely loved Ryan obsessing over "the secret to financial independence". It added some nice humor in the mix. Amazing job by supporting actors, especially the guy that played Dick Coonan. Everything else I want to comment on has been said about a million times, so I think I'll leave it at that for now. :)

8:42 pm
January 19, 2010


MomInIllinois

Castle Groupie

posts 42

A couple of additional things I noticed after watching the ep a couple more times:

** When it's obvious Beckett's attempts to revive Dick won't work, the camera pans to the others. Notice the look on Ryan's face (he turns away I think with tears in his eyes) and Esposito has a striken look on his face, as well.

** At the very end when Beckett and Castle are starting to eat, does she lean over as if she's going to take a bit of his?

avatar compliments of Taija

8:58 pm
January 19, 2010


IUCastle

Castle Groupie

posts 26

Long time lurker first time poster!! I was wondering if anyone noticed Ryan and Esposito's expressions. So touching. I loved the entire episode. So many great moments. The last scene…..I've watched it a million times. Can't get enough of it. Can't wait til next Monday!

9:11 pm
January 19, 2010


Jamz

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 2641

MomInIllinois said:

A couple of additional things I noticed after watching the ep a couple more times:

** When it's obvious Beckett's attempts to revive Dick won't work, the camera pans to the others. Notice the look on Ryan's face (he turns away I think with tears in his eyes) and Esposito has a striken look on his face, as well.

** At the very end when Beckett and Castle are starting to eat, does she lean over as if she's going to take a bit of his?


The way Ryan turned away and the look on Esposito's face just added to the heartbreak. 

I also noticed she leans toward him right before it fades away but I couldn't tell if she was telling him something or if she was looking at his food. lol.

http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab297/Beckett76/Castle%20Sigs/6.png

Banner/Icon by: petal of roses

 

10:50 pm
January 19, 2010


PamFromCalif

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 213

I have read this entire thread and pretty much everything has been mentioned. I was down south in LA watching Stana in the play she was in so by the time I got home yesterday Castle was about to come on and no time to post here.
I have always liked bloopers or editing glitches and did anyone catch that when Capt. Montgomery gives Beckett the flask to have a drink, she seems to be opening it twice unscrewing the cap two times where they edited the film together?
I liked several things about this episode, When Castle calls after Beckett and says Kate when she won't stop and listen to him. He swallows and you see the lump in his throat. I am always laughing about this when we are in chat, when they swallow to let you know their true emotions that camera focuses on their throats lol!
I thought there should have been more interaction with her Dad and at Castle's home. I think the last 11 minutes were rushed and the first half of the show could have been trimmed to use for more important scenes.
I expected more drama or I built up more drama in my mind about the hostage situation and the shooting. I thought there would be more concern for Castle from Beckett, maybe there was as she kept her cool without showing the gunman with her eyes and expressions that she cared if Castle was killed.
I would have liked Alexis to have run back quickly and given Kate a hug even if her gram pulled her out of the room. I think Alexis likes Kate not only as a friend but role model.
Alexis knows her Dad likes this woman, and so does she.
I liked the ending it didn't appear in any way for me to be brother and sister I never got that and I have watched it so many times. I love the way Beckett is sitting in her chair reading the Catp.'s report, how she always knows/feels when Castle is close by and the way she looks over at him knowing it is he who stands quitly by her side. These two are finding out just how much the other has touched their lives, slowly yes sometimes to slow for me but at least they are taking a few baby steps in the right direction. I like how they now stand so close to one another been happening in past few episodes, sitting closer in the questioning room little things make me happy.
I loved the scene where Castle eats the egg, reminds me of how well Nathan plays I love Lucy, but he is I love Ricky(Castle). Nathan plays the comedy timing so well. Not often on TV these times do you see that kind of comedy timing with facial gestures go hand in hand so well. Like when he enters the bar the first time after Beckett tells him to butch up, love how he acts like he is a fighter going into the ring.

Beckett allowing Castle to see a vulnerable side is telling she is opening up to him as her mate but she doesn't know it yet! Stana plays so many emotions in this episode and it is nice the writers are giving her sides we haven't seen yet in her character, I am glad they are allowing Castle and Beckett to grow with each other. Nathan has been in acting a decade longer then Stana this series is giving Stana a place to tune her craft as it is her first series. She has done TV episode appearances, films, and some television movies but this series is where she is getting experience with her first series each episode she ingrowing as an actress and getting better and better with experience.

11:03 pm
January 19, 2010


mirella_209

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 268

one of my favorite scenes that no one has posted yet was when he was trying to cheer her up with a joke and it worked

"do you know why i choose you as my inspiration for nikki heat?"

"no… why?"

" because you're tall."Bounce2Love2

11:07 pm
January 19, 2010


musiclover

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 1486

Yeah I liked that part it was sweet of him to say that to make her feel better.

11:56 pm
January 19, 2010


TheBeckettOnion

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 82

Don't think this has been mentioned yet…I loved it when Castle was beating himself for thinking he was arrogant and Beckett says, I didn't think what you did was arrogant, I thought it was sweet.

I thought the entire episode was spot on. Timing, pace, performances…A+ I'm no expert and I'm a little biased but I think award winning episode for sure.

I also can see where people would feel the final few minutes were rushed, especially the first time through. However, I thought the whole hostage scene was well played. Well played indeed.

For those who wanted a kiss or a hug or a reach for the hand…Castle's hand on her shoulder and what Beckett tells Castle in the end progresses their relationship speaks more than an awkward, post-traumatic hug ever could at this point.
I'm in love with this episode. Def on top 5 all time list. Love2

It's like the circus! But with alcohol! Why haven't I been here?

You should see some of the clubs I've been to.

12:05 am
January 20, 2010


maryc

Hollywood CA

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 308

I haven't read through the thread yet, but I don't think anyone has mentioned one of my fave bits from this ep (I love the ones I've read through from you guys so far, though!)

I think it's when Ryan is watching the DVD, and Vong is saying how hard he had it, and how he learned English by watching VHS tapes of Cannonball Run.  We re-ran that one a couple of times to make sure we heard it right.  Seriously. Laugh. Out. Loud. Funny.  Great throw away line.

And that's another thing I love about this show–there are great throw away lines that you know the writers (or the actors, if they are ad-libbed) put in there for the pure pleasure of their viewers.

This is a show that trusts in the intelligence of their audience.  It's a rare network show that does. 

I put Castle in the group of shows that knows "The Right People Will Get It"; the first show that did that (imo) was MST3K.  Right now, Castle can be added to that glorious category, as can Leverage and Psych.

Love when networks program shows that prove they don't have to "dumb down" the shows to reach a viable audience.

~maryc

12:12 am
January 20, 2010


maryc

Hollywood CA

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 308

Lady Brenlis said:

So what do you all think Castle meant when he said he overstepped his bounds?


I think he meant by offering to pay the 100K.  If he hadn't offered that money, Coonan wouldn't have gotten his immunity deal.

~maryc

1:41 am
January 20, 2010


Bren Williams/Lady Brenlis

United States

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 167

But they never would have figured out Coonan was the assassin either, so that doesn't fit. I think Wynnara had the best explanation, although I appreciate all who put in their $.02.

Wynnara Said:

When Coonan took Castle hostage he basically presented Beckett with two options… either they shoot Coonan (which may or may not include Coonan killing Castle before he goes down) or they let Coonan walk out of there and presumably Castle gets to live (although who knows, Coonan could've killed Castle out of spite)… if they shot Coonan however they'd loose their lead and Castle knew that the way things were playing out shooting Coonan was very likely. That I think is what his headshake was about–him trying to tell Beckett to not let this go, no matter what danger he happened to be in.

Thus what I think Castle was attempting to do is give Beckett a third option… one where he sufficiently stuns Coonan so that they can recapture him without anyone having to get shot. Near as I can tell, this was completely his idea and thus when it backfires and his move ultimately forces Beckett to kill Coonan in order to save Castle's life, Castle feels extraordinarily guilty. That I think is what he meant when he said he overstepped… he wanted to hand Coonan to Beckett so he could give her that all important lead, but he failed.

3:30 am
January 20, 2010


CKDexter

Castle Groupie

posts 29

First off, I can't believe NO ONE said anything about Nathan coughing up the egg right after Beckett said, "It's not like I'm askin' you to cough up–" until wolf-fire did. Also, mentioning all the funny Ryan moments, those were epic…props to you, wolf-fire! Thank you.

Second, this episode should have been two hours. Definitely needed to linger on some emotional moments. i.e. Beckett leaving after the captain asked if she could handle it, Beckett goin' to Castle's apartment, and when Beckett's tryin' to revive Coonan. (Notice how it's all Stana moments, haha, not intentional…just calls for more "lingering")

Third, I had a slight problem with the casting of Beckett's dad. I didn't realize what it was 'til I watched it again. I didn't get the feel of devastation Johanna's death caused him, nor the fact that he was an alcoholic. I almost wanted him to have tears in his eyes when he said, "And for years, I thought she was wrong, because I couldn't handle losing her." Then he kind of catches himself, smiles and says the next line. Definitely would have made for a more emotional impact. Someone mentioned that the scene was weak in terms of dialogue and acting, I thought the dialogue was fine. It suited them (Kate and her dad). Liked the end where they talk about Johanna saying how life never gives you anything you can't handle and how this might be Johanna's way of reachin' out to Beckett, very touching.

As for the end, I thought Will did a brilliant job in giving Beckett that opportunity of opening herself to Castle. Definitely a step in the right direction. Whoever said it was a brother/sister thing…ha! "No comment." Why people want to rush into them getting together is beyond me. There's something about Stana and Nathan's chemistry on screen. It kind of develops as the relationship of Beckett and Castle develops. It starts with a spark, an attraction but nothing solid, then it sort of grows into an understanding and acceptance of who these people are, a certain respect, then after Sucker Punch, the chemistry takes a new direction of the possibility of forming a permanent relationship which will eventually become something more in the future.

Yes, Stana was brilliant, totally said she should get an award, ever since I saw her crying in the promo…

Thoughts, anyone??

5:10 am
January 20, 2010


spinja

Canada

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 233

Admin wrote:

"Ok – those of you complaining about the last scene need to go and watch Anne of Green Gables – everyone knows that when a boy pulls a girls pigtails it means he likes her!! I think Beckett & Castle are both admitting this in this scene.It's a big step forward….you just missed it :)"

Awwww, Admin – tch, tch for trying to lecture a Canadian about Anne of Green Gables… Tongue 

But if you find that a fitting comparison, then I say - oh joy, - we're 11 years old again.

Didn't miss the step; just thought it was into kiddie shoes.

 Castle = Man. Becket = Woman. "Boy" "Girl" = Cute. Asexual.

This is partly what I meant when I asked Jose in chat not to take away Castle's manhood …which I realize now must have sounded damn strange, to him, and all who saw it !

His reply: "spinja, Castle's not about to join the Vienna Boy's Choir anytime soon", or words to that effect.

Whew! I say.

These are some sexy adults we're watching; I do not want them to behave like children. Anymore.

with a  Wave to Moby…

http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee444/HartandSwann/Castle/siginspirationSLA.jpg

8:47 am
January 20, 2010


Sandy (aka newsjunkie)

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 290

** When it's obvious Beckett's attempts to revive Dick won't work, the camera pans to the others. Notice the look on Ryan's face (he turns away I think with tears in his eyes) and Esposito has a striken look on his face, as well.

That scene is one of the most poignant of the whole episode for me. And after watching the episode 7 times now (I have a commute that allows me to watch the whole episode on my iPod each way) something struck me about that one short moment. I could just be getting all fangirl here but seeing Montgomery, Ryan, Esposito, and Castle watching Beckett as she realizes Dick is gone–the looks on their faces almost spoke more to me as them being the actors watching another actor give a truly amazing performance. They didn't have to act in that scene because Stana was doing such an unbelievably amazing job that they all just fed off of her. So for that one moment it was just Ruben, Seamus, Jon, and Nathan watching Stana very flawlessly give a very emotional performance and being moved by that. Or maybe that was just part of it. They ALL gave such amazing performances, this episode better get some kind of recognition come awards time.

These are some sexy adults we're watching; I do not want them to behave like children. Anymore.

I could not disagree more spinja! Children would have jumped into a kiss or more long before now. Adults realize the seriousness of that first step and take their time with it. Or put it another way. People who just want a fling will go for it ASAP, but people with truly deeper feelings, who want something lasting, will wait until the time is right. Kate saying that to Rick affirmed for him that there is a closeness between them on a very mature level. And him not regressing to the 12-year-old after she said it affirmed it back to her. They're on that path, they're still going to be together all the time, so there is no reason for them to rush into something before the time is right.

As someone who has been there, done that and made that mistake one too many times, I am VERY happy they are writing the progression of their relationship they way they are.

"Shut the front door!" "No time for dirty talk, go get changed."

9:04 am
January 20, 2010


GhostWriter

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 651

Hey all – i'm a newbie, so if i say something dumb – have patience.

Interesting and evocative use of first names in this episode. In order:

The Captain calls Beckett Kate while administering the "Poor Man's Painkiller" in his office.

Castle uses Kate's first name (for the first time since the beginning of the show, I think) to try to call her back as she's fleeing the precinct.

Beckett's father calls her Katie.

Finally, Beckett calls the Captain Roy when imploring him not to shoot the bad guy.

Use of first name = deep emotion/ personal connection.

Flashback to last episode with Kyra's comment about Beckett calling him Castle vs. Kyra thinking of him as 'only' Rick.

There are two apparent inconsistencies here:

Lanie didn't use Beckett's first name when responding to KB's tirade before the Captain comes out of his office. [And why is Lanie the only police character who almost always is called by her first name?}

Martha doesn't call her Kate at the apartment, but does call her Kiddo.

I can't explain the first of these omissions, but Martha seems to use Kiddo as a term of affection for her son. She only calls him by his first name when she's a bit perturbed at him. (So, has she adopted Kate now?)

Look for this usage to come up again.

Slight aside – i do love KB's clothes, but what's with the coats/jackets? I counted about four different ones on KB this episode and more than 20 over the season thus far – including about six to eight leather jackets. She'd have to have a three bedroom apartment just for the coats – and at NYC prices????

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