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Ep 15 – Post Episode Discussion

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11:38 pm
February 8, 2010


Admin

Admin

posts 4007

Reminder that if you have any questions or comments about this episode the writer Jose Molina will be joining us for a special chat – you can post questions in advance in the Events section of the forum

Site Administrator

11:47 pm
February 8, 2010


GreenyJess

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 292

Great ep! But we've come to except that now, haven't we? ;)

I thought the stories were especially lovely in this one. Very touching stuff with Lara, the unknown daughter, and all the struggles she and her mother went through. The ending with her and Vega's wife… just yay.
I especially loved Castle's take on the whole father thing and all it's possibilities. Doesn't want to spoil the fantasy. Just loved that. It's so Castle.

Jose did another awesome one. He is so the man. Cool

1:42 am
February 9, 2010


Guest

Guest

Loved the episode, especially scenes with Alexis. Love2

2:12 am
February 9, 2010


mk2108

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 146

The suspects will never learn. They might be smarter than Beckett. They might be smarter than Castle. But too late they learn they're not as smart as the both of them. Beckett and Castle are truly a team where the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts. Great episode.

"My partner is crazy and may start firing at any moment." – Castle speaking in Chinese about Beckett

Beckett: (about Natalie Rhodes) She took my coffee, Castle!

Beckett: Alakazam, jackass.

Esposito: "Listen to me. You're too late. The cops already know all about…me and your mom."

Beckett: "I put a lot of people in this place. Some of them want to kill me, others never been treated so fairly in their lives – so they form an attachment to me. It’s like I’m their favorite schoolteacher. Some of those people might visit you while you’re in here, like the ghosts that visit Scrooge. And after some time with them, you might find yourself a changed man. So I will be back here, week after week, to ask you who hired you, until that miracle occurs."

2:18 am
February 9, 2010


wynnara

Vancouver, Canada

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 116

After the glee-fest of the last episode, I didn't really expect anything to match it this week… and really, this doesn't, but it is an enjoyable episode in its own right and the more I think about it, the more it actually makes me smile.

Firstly, I *love* that they don't have Castle rabidly wanting to hunt down the identity of his father as would happen on just about any drama on television… and I also love Castle's rationale for not wanting to know… it appeals to the part of him that loves the story, loves the fantasy… which is, as Greeny has already suggested, so very Castle.

Although, one thing I kept pondering after his frequently references to the hucksters and the cons in his family tree, if that isn't a bit of the insecure Castle showing… he seemed to shoot down Montgomery's suggestion that he could have some "cop blood" in him awfully fast… does he believe that's far too noble a profession for someone of Castle's questionable character/genetic makeup? I don't know… it just occurred to me at the end of the ep that I wonder if you ever sat Castle down and asked him if he thought he was really a "good guy", what would he say?

Also loved that, unlike many shows that would've gone for the obvious story of a rich baseball player who gets into something dark or gets into trouble with his girl on the side… that we actually had an unexpectedly tender tale about a father–yes, we probably should've seen it coming with all the talk about fathers this ep… but, in any case, a good father who just wants to do right for his daughter.

 

3:46 am
February 9, 2010


TabloidJunkie

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 60

Esposito & Beckett speaking Spanish = HOTTTTTT.

5:42 am
February 9, 2010


abc123

Castle Groupie

posts 32

I have to be honest, I liked the episode but it was not one of my favorites. It was really really fast paced and because of that some of the flirting and back and forth between Beckett & Castle didn't have the effected that I'm used to. I also didn't like that there was zero conversation between Castle & Beckett about his father issues, she was so matter of fact about it. Even at the police station when we learn that the girl was the daugther and you can tell Castle is getting upset, effected in a personal way and yet there wasn't any follow thru about it. I sort of felt as if scenes in this episode were cut, things that may have been filmed but didn't make it to the final version. There was more from Martha about her family and very little conversation between Castle & her or Alexis & her about who Castle's dad. I'm used to the quiet conversation between Castle & Beckett after the case, there have been many talks between Castle & Beckett about cases and how the remind Beckett of her mother and what happened, in this episode we didn't get that.

But…
I'm going to go and rewatch the episode, because perhaps it was me, sometimes on first viewing you miss things.
After watching the past two new episodes this one had very little Castle & Beckett, not the flirting, but the emotional stuff..

Off to rewatch..

6:24 am
February 9, 2010


APS221

New Member

posts 1

I was kind of bugged by the whole "Cuban Consulate" thing. Cuba and the United States of America do not have full diplomatic relations. Cuba has an "interest section" in Washington, D.C., not an embassy. Cuba does not have consulates in cities across the country. However, Cuba does have a mission to the United Nations in New York City. The only thing that was correct was that consular officials have consular immunity, which is more limited than diplomatic immunity. Unfortunately, the head of a mission to the U.N. does have full diplomatic immunity.

7:49 am
February 9, 2010


dmcw

Illinois

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 3314

abc123, I agree with a lot of what you said. My initial reaction to the episode was a little disappointment, but it's hard not to have high expectations where Beckett and Castle are concerned after the last 3 episodes each moved their relationship forward in a significant way. This one seemed to me to slow it a little, which I suppose you need to do if there aren't plans to hook them up in the near future! But all Castle episodes also delight me in some way, (and I did rewatch once) so here's what I liked:

-Stuff relating to Beckett in the episode: her hair, her in blue, those sexy high heeled boots she was wearing, the banter about her "big words", her fangirl moment, the way she caught the ball Esposito and Ryan tossed around, the talk of her dad, her use of Spanish (Esposito too)…

-Castle's musings about his father…the "creative" reason he says he's ok with not knowing him seems consistent with his writer creativity (although there's probably something more emotional below the surface). The father stuff had a nice tie-in with the crime.

-Castle missing the toss and his bad throw made me laugh, and some of the moments with Alexis were sweet.

-The discussion of athletes and politicians cheating with Ryan, Esposito, and Beckett…she was very matter-of-fact about it being an exposure thing, and this would seem to play into insecurity about a relationship with a famous writer like Castle

But I was surprised or confused by the following:
-Beckett's comment about Castle being "famously fatherless"…seemed a little mean…and maybe not like something she'd say at this point
-Martha's lack of involvement in discussions about Castle's father…but I suppose there will be time for this later on
-No one-on-one time between Castle and Beckett outside of them being together for interrogations…especially as it related to discussions of fathers.

There was a lot going into the crime story in this episode, so perhaps the fast pace required some things to be cut like abc123 said…

Icon by SKB; Banner by petal of roses

7:51 am
February 9, 2010


Theresa

Philippines

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 997

regardless of seeing the 'you should hear me say fallacious' sneak peek…seeing it in the episode still made me smile like whooo. Hahaha :D also the 'That's Joe freakin Torre' part. LOVE it :D love the beginning part where martha was teaching alexis how to read minds, and the ending part with castle breaking something (LOL)…it was very touching. :D t'was super awesome to hear Beckett speak spanish, and her expression/reaction as the victim's daughter was telling her her story, great acting. :)

as for speaking about the whole episode itself, i agree with those saying it was sort of rushed and such, and yes it would have been better to have certain scenes in there, but overall i liked the episode. it didn't struck me as the past 3 episodes did, but then again, i think it causes balance..which is good. :D

B-E-C-K-E double T Badge 41319 Love

We only got 86 400 seconds in a day, To turn it all around or to throw it all away, We gotta tell 'em that we love 'em while we got the chance to say, Gotta live like we're dyingn[Kris Allen - Live Like Were Dying]

8:08 am
February 9, 2010


abc123

Castle Groupie

posts 32

I just felt the episode was rushed along, such an important issue vs such a matter of fact reaction.
Nothing between Castle & Beckett about his father, nothing between Martha & Castle about his dad either.
There were points during the episode that I felt things were set-up to focus more on the Castle dad storyline and yet somehow they just did not follow thru with it. So now I'm convinced that this episode was edited after the orginal concept was put in place and things were filmed, edited perhaps because of the additional 2 episodes. It's possible that they later decided to deal with this issue at another time and that's why it was wrapped up in a neat little bow with little effect on what happens next week. Castle doesn't have a dad, but he has a great daugther, so essentially it's a status quo.

To fast and not you usual person connection between Beckett & Castle and I was missing the great backround music and sounds during scenes. I found myself saying slow down, take a breath, let me enjoy this Cuba moment between Castle & Beckett, but in a flash it came and went.

I don't think it has been just the last three episodes that built us up to want more from Castle & Beckett.
It's the entire series, even back to episode 1. For me this episode had least amount of emotional tone between Castle & Beckett of all the Castle episode to air to date.

8:40 am
February 9, 2010


GhostWriter

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 651

I'm with abc123:

"I don't think it has been just the last three episodes that built us up to want more from Castle & Beckett.
It's the entire series, even back to episode 1. For me this episode had least amount of emotional tone between Castle & Beckett of all the Castle episode to air to date."

While i enjoyed this one (how could you not?) it just screamed FILLER! I guess everybody's got to rest sometime.

The other comment i'd echo – from several others above – too much going on and so little time for substance. Hey Writerboys – give us a little more depth and a little less breadth – pretty please.

8:46 am
February 9, 2010


MomInIllinois

Castle Groupie

posts 42

And I thought it was just me thinking this episode was alittle let down……I agree with GhostWriter – this one did scream filler.

avatar compliments of Taija

8:47 am
February 9, 2010


abc123

Castle Groupie

posts 32

That's exactly what it felt like Filler and yet the subject being about the lead Chracter's father was weird.
The content should have been a bit deep and at least opened a door for Beckett to learn something personal about Castle, more about what makes him who he is.

I just cannot help shake the feeling that this show was toned down and edited from it's original plan.
Perhaps moving if more toward a filler episode and perhaps sweeping Castle & Beckett's interaction about his dad under the rug because it will be brought back in one of the additional episodes.

There really was nothing advanced in the episode for any of the characters or their relationships with the other. At best we Sanchez learned that Castle was raised fatherless.

8:50 am
February 9, 2010


nalissa2

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 1183

The other thing that kind of stood out for me is that Beckett said that she and her dad used to go out to Shea. Hmm.. OK. But Shea is -er- was the home of the NY Mets, not the Yankees. Joe Torre is the greatest Yankee's manager they've ever had (so far). 

Now I'm not a big baseball fan but I've lived in NYC a long time and I've never met a fan of both teams. You're going to be a fan of one OR the other….  Highly unlikely, both. At least I've never met any one who was.

Now, as a person, J.T. is terrific because he's a stand up guy who conducted himself very professionally when his bosses, er… did not.

Just saying… that kinda bugged me.

Oh and in case you're wondering I'm a Mets fan, or used to be… Laugh

NYPD. Open the damn door!

9:01 am
February 9, 2010


Elizah

Castle Groupie

posts 20

"not a week goes by I dont think about her" (re: Alison, Castle's freshman year sweetheart). Hmmmm…. certainly seems to leave it open for her to show up.

Re: Castle's father and him not wanting to know. Not everyone in that sort of situation needs to know. My mother was adopted when she was very young and I've asked her about it more than once, and she just does not have any interest in finding out who her biological parents were. I know it'll never happen, but with Joe Torre saying to say hello to Castle's mother, you don't suppose? Shock' class='wp-smiley' /> Naaahhh… Crazy2

I agree about the lack of emotional tone (in general), not that it was a bad episode. It was very fast paced with the usual twists and turns and just enough fun moments like Castle eating the whip cream for "dinner" and Alexis scolding him. Also, there was a moment when Esposito and Ryan were tossing the ball around and then toss it to Castle who doesn't even attempt to catch it! ROFL!

Edit: someone uploaded that on youtube already. Too funny!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..8yA8RjxjlM

9:02 am
February 9, 2010


abc123

Castle Groupie

posts 32

Joe Torre played and managed the NY Mets, the Mets was his first gig as a manager.

Joe Torre never aspired to be a manager. The position was forced on him. Well. sort of. On May 31, 1977, the New York Mets fired skipper Joe Frazier, and asked Torre, who was their third baseman at the time, to fill in as player-manager. Because it was Joe's 18th season as a player, and because his skills had diminished greatly from his glory years as a player from 1963 through 1973, he accepted the gig on an interim basis. Maybe this would be his next move, he thought at the time. Torre immediately took to the new position, and just 18 days later, he retired from playing to concentrate all of his energies as a Major league baseball manager.

Failure with The Mets
Torre did not find immediate success. Rather, in four and a half years as the Mets' skipper, Torre managed the team to two fifth place, and three more last place, finishes in the National League East. His overall record was 286-420, the worst of any manager over that time period. Then again, Torre didn't exactly have Murderers Row to work with when he filled out the daily lineup card.

Read more at Suite101: Joe Torre's Managing Career: From Mets, Braves and Cardinals Failure to New York Yankees Success http://baseball.suite101.com/a…..z0f2zHtr0k

If we are to assume that Beckett is in her early 30's than this timeline works. Joe Torre would not have been the manager of the Yankess when Beckett was a child. So the show was right to recognize that if this was something Beckett did when she was a kid, it means if Torre was involved it had to be for the Mets.

9:10 am
February 9, 2010


nalissa2

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 1183

abc123 said:

Joe Torre played and managed the NY Mets, the Mets was his first gig as a manager.

If we are to assume that Beckett is in her early 30's than this timeline works. Joe Torre would not have been the manager of the Yankess when Beckett was a child. So the show was right to recognize that if this was something Beckett did when she was a kid, it means if Torre was involved it had to be for the Mets.


Wow.. I stand corrected. Laugh

Wait! I just had to add, does that mean Beckett is a Mets fan?? Now, that is cool.

NYPD. Open the damn door!

9:21 am
February 9, 2010


Elizah

Castle Groupie

posts 20

Just wanted to add to, while I miss Lanie not being there this episode, I REALLY like this other Med. Examiner Perlmutter! Oh, so hard to choose!

9:38 am
February 9, 2010


Sandy (aka newsjunkie)

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 290

While Joe Torre was a great manager, he wasn't the greatest manager the Yankees have ever had. I love Joe and I've been a HUGE Yankees fan since I was a little girl, but there were awesome Yankees' managers back in the 50s and 60s. Joe was the perfect manager for the 96 and 98-00 Yankees World Series teams, but I wouldn't put him as the greatest Yankees manager ever.

Baseball talk aside, I liked last night's episode. It wasn't as over-the-top "OMG AMAZING" as the past few episodes, but I thought it was a very solid episode. I don't have much more time to comment but I'll just say in response to whoever said Beckett's saying Castle was "famously fatherless" was mean, I just watched it on hulu and I didn't think she said it in a mean way at all. And he certainly didn't seem to take it that way. To me it signified that they've reached a point in their relationship where they can joke about things like that without it being mean-spirited or crossing a line. That was my take on it anyway.

LOVED the family scenes, and I didn't want them to delve deeper into who Castle's father is, nor did I really want to see Beckett making a big deal out of it. Castle helping Beckett work through her parent trauma is wonderful, and while I do want to see Beckett helping Castle work through something, I want it to be something different. Yes, there would be there "I've sorta been there, let me help you through this" element, but I still want it to be something else if and when it happens.

I absolutely squealed with delight when Alexis brought the baseball mitts out at the end and I laughed SO hard when Castle's throw went awry. REALLY GREAT way to end the episode!

"Shut the front door!" "No time for dirty talk, go get changed."

9:51 am
February 9, 2010


dmcw

Illinois

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 3314

Elizah…I caught the stuff about the freshman year sweetheart Allison too…but it did seem odd to me that he would think about someone he knew for 6 hours every week…would she have been pre-Kyra?

The writers don't seem to like to do the same concepts over and over…would they do another "lost love"?

With 3 tweets from Richard Castle about a new neighbor this week, I thought that might be in the episode, but maybe a future one?

I think I would have felt a little more satisfied with the episode with just a little more follow-through with interactions between Castle and Beckett…she starts the Cuba/swimsuit flirt, and then shuts down his reaction quickly…there aren't even any of the usual glances/knowing looks between them. Even one emotional discussion of fathers would have been nice…I agree with abc…there just wasn't character advancement in this one.

The back and forth between Castle and Esposito was cute this episode, though…Esposito teasing Castle about Mama Mia/his mother being wild, and Castle teasing Esposito about Ryan still loving him even though he's on the phone all the time with his girlfriend.

Icon by SKB; Banner by petal of roses

10:01 am
February 9, 2010


Elizah

Castle Groupie

posts 20

I agree, part of me would be surprised if they did the "love lost" thing again, but perhaps if they have a different twist on it (perhaps Alexis has a big brother or sister out there somewhere, hmmm). I don't know. Yes I think it would have to have been pre Kyra (by at least a year, if he was spending that long looking for her), I think that's why he said Freshman year in college specifically. This guy seemingly had girls falling all over him in college (not that I blame them Embarassed ). When did he have time to study?!

I submitted questions to Jose for tonight about both Alison and the mysterious new neighbor. We'll see if we get any more tidbits to tide us over.

I almost forgot about the "he still loves you" moment to Esposito. Hilarious! And isn't Ryan adorable with his girlfriend? Wish I had a guy like that.

10:07 am
February 9, 2010


Seriously?

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 399

I'll say it: I was flat out disappointed in this episode. My expectations were low going in so it wasn't even that I hyped it up. The "Who is my daddy?" storyline felt really random and out of place within this episode… almost like an afterthought and somewhat contrived. If they want to go there, IMHO, it kind of needed more finesse. I thought as it stood, it was rushed.

All of the baseball stuff just bored me to tears. I'm still not sure why Joe Torre is someone to really geek out over. I know who he is now (thank you Google!) but nonetheless, I can't even imagine Beckett going all fan girl. Don't get me wrong, Stana sold it and it was cute, but I'm just not sure I believe it given everything we've seen about KB. In a non-professional setting I could buy it, but while working on a case? Not so much.

Ultimately, this was the type of episode that made Castle feel more like typical procedural to me and seemed like more of a filler episode than anything. There were moments, but frankly, most of those I already saw in the promos. Probably won't buy this one from iTunes. : (

ETA: I just saw the previous post and I have to say, I will be ridiculously unhappy if Castle finds out he has some long lost love child. So cliche. So stupid. So not what I want to watch.

Real Detectives Wear Heels – visit us at http://fashion.castletv.net/ or on Twitter @CastleFashion

10:25 am
February 9, 2010


abc123

Castle Groupie

posts 32

The episode was not presented in the Castle format I have come to love, character advancement or not.
The back in forth between Caslte & Beckett was rushed, when that is usually the center of the show.
It was out of character for both Castle & Beckett to not discuss what was going on with Castle and his father issues, even the report that Alexis was doing normally would have been a passing mention between Castle & Beckett.

A question thru the run of Castle between Castle & Beckett has always been Beckett's interest in knowing what happened in Castle's past to turn him into a murder mystery writer. It seemed clear to me tonight that Castle became a mystery writer because of the unknown in his life, not knowing who his father was and imagining him as all different types of people, perhaps Castle's unknown father is who he based his last character on.
What makes Castle the show it is, is the emotional and sexual dynamic between the male & female leads on the show, they aren't just physically attracted to the other, there is something at their cores that connects, finds common ground. For the first time for me, the show failed to highlight that commonground, the connection. It wasn't due to lack of chemistry or opportunity, it felt more like they just didn't bother.

I think that Castle at this point doesn't want to know about his father because not knowing has helped define him and also been the spark to his creative side, perhaps what inspired him to be a writer in the first place.

Perhaps we will learn that Dana Delaney's character is the woman he was telling Alexis about today, maybe that's how they will tie that two parter up. It gives Castle & Delaney's characters something to highlight their chemistry, a few dates and allows lose ends for Castle to be tied up, that it wouldn't have been this grand thing he thought. As for Castle's neighbor and just hearing the dog bark for days, what if the person is not going to be a love interest, what if they are going to be a murder victim and that is why they haven't answered the door??

10:43 am
February 9, 2010


Elizah

Castle Groupie

posts 20

That's certainly a possibility for the neighbor, ABC (or maybe it's still just random twittering). Perhaps Jose will shed some light on those twitters tonight if we're lucky.

I doubt Alison will be Dana's character though (different name for one thing). Also I would be disappointed from the standpoint that I really hate it when a new love interest is introduced just for an episode (or in this case a two parter) and then gone by the end. I suppose it's my own fault for reading spoilers, so I know if that character will be in future episodes, but it's much more interesting to me if the relationship is drawn out over a season or longer. Love triangles work best IMO if they are drawn out and keeping the audience guessing about who is going to wind up with who (or is that whom?)

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