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Ep 16_ Post episode discussion…….

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10:48 am
March 10, 2010


dmcw

Illinois

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 3314

wynnara said:

At the same time, the Castle-seeks-help-from-family-to-solve-case is an extremely convenient plot device for the writers. Sometimes it's used well, but sometimes it seems like the writers paint themselves into a corner and use it as their get out of jail free card. I don't really see that as a problem with Alexis' character however, simply an occasional issue with plot structure. In my opinion the case aspect of the show is one of its weaker elements but, even with that, the show has much stronger writing than many that are out there.

 


 I generally have no issue with this.  Maybe it's just me, but I don't care so much about the rock-solid construct of the crimes.  There really haven't been any cases that I felt were tied up so ridiculously that it bothered me.  This episode was probably the most unlikely murder construct in that the tiny roommate would not have been able to get the victim up on the monkey bars.  Even then, it didn't bother me so much.  If I wanted to watch completely accurate crime dramas, I'd go elsewhere.  The guest stars in the episodes are so good that the characters are believable even when the details of the crimes may be a little weak.

I mostly see Alexis making comments about things related to her own life that give Castle inspiration to help solve things.  This isn't so far-fetched, and in fact, is done every week on House when some random comment from someone helps House solve his latest medical mystery.

I think the time Alexis was most involved was in Famous Last Words, and since she was a fan of the victim's music, I didn't find it silly that she had some insight.

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12:10 pm
March 10, 2010


Brighteyes

Castle Groupie

posts 12

Thanks for giving the name of the band and song from the opening scene -it really caught my attention. Love2

About the episode: LOVED IT!!!!Love

 

I thought it was hilarious, Castle's facial expressions were just too funny. I love the way Beckett had fun toying with Castle. Gotta admit, I'm guilty of that kind of behavior myself *grin*

 

And on Alexis, sometimes I do think her character is written "too" prefect and it was started to annoy me. But then I thought of all the other shows I've watched that featured teenagers, and you know what, I decided I'd rather see a lot more characters like Alexis than any of the teens from shows like Gossip Girl. I think it's quite possible for someone that young to be that mature. I think I was a lot like her when I was her age, just not as bubblely. Smile So i appreciate the writers for writing a teenage girl like Alexis and which more shows would adopt it.

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12:20 pm
March 10, 2010


Marbs84

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 630

I was rewatching this episode this morning and I just noticed "the look" Castle gave Kate when they were discussing Alexis wanting to be a cheerleader. When Castle said, "she wants to cheer for the team. Why not mathletes." Then Kate said "Why can't she do both?" Then he gives her this look, like he looked a bit angry. Then she says "It's how kids figures out who they want to be." Then Castle, eases up. She got through to him.

I just find it so interesting how comfortable Castle is discussin his issues with Alexis to Kate and then Kate giving him her insights and opinions without really thinking about it. Like it's so natural for them.

Castle admires Kate and I think he wonders if Kate ever went through what Alexis is going through right now. And if Kate did and she turned out to be a fine, respectable and strong woman with so much integrity, then Alexis will be fine.

I remember Castle asking Kate if she ever kept secrets from her Dad and she said "yes." Then this time he asked if Kate ever wanted to be a cheerleader.

I love how their relationship has progressed and love it even more that I don't think these two even realize it. Great job by Andrew Marlowe and their writers.

"I believe life takes us where we need to be." – Sasha Alexander
"The key to happiness is good health and a poor memory." – Ingrid Bergman

12:53 pm
March 10, 2010


Jamz

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 2641

Marbs84, I noticed that scene too. He did look a bit angry until she said it's how kids figure out who they want to be. I liked the other scene you pointed out about secrets. Another one I enjoyed was in Fool Me Once. I'm ashamed I can't remember what the issue was but Beckett says having once been a teenaged girl you have my sypathies. Or something like that. Not only does she give insight but she even teases him a bit too. Like in Vampire Weekend when he says she's going to her first senior party. It's the look Beckett gives him.

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1:28 pm
March 10, 2010


KalliopePL

Warsaw, Poland

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 1924

Jamz said:

Marbs84, I noticed that scene too. He did look a bit angry until she said it's how kids figure out who they want to be. I liked the other scene you pointed out about secrets. Another one I enjoyed was in Fool Me Once. I'm ashamed I can't remember what the issue was but Beckett says having once been a teenaged girl you have my sypathies. Or something like that. Not only does she give insight but she even teases him a bit too. Like in Vampire Weekend when he says she's going to her first senior party. It's the look Beckett gives him.


 

In "Fool me once" Castle was playing an over protecting dad to Alexis – she was getting violin lessons with young and very handsome teacher and Castle freaked out. He wanted the guy to be checked on polygraph in addition to credit check and school reports. When Alexis found out that he ordered such check, she stormed the precinct and gave him this speach in the interrogation room, which Beckett was watching through the glass.

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1:59 pm
March 10, 2010


Marbs84

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 630

Kalliope said:

Jamz said:
[quote]
Marbs84, I noticed that scene too. He did look a bit angry until she said it's how kids figure out who they want to be. I liked the other scene you pointed out about secrets. Another one I enjoyed was in Fool Me Once. I'm ashamed I can't remember what the issue was but Beckett says having once been a teenaged girl you have my sypathies. Or something like that. Not only does she give insight but she even teases him a bit too. Like in Vampire Weekend when he says she's going to her first senior party. It's the look Beckett gives him.


 
In "Fool me once" Castle was playing an over protecting dad to Alexis – she was getting violin lessons with young and very handsome teacher and Castle freaked out. He wanted the guy to be checked on polygraph in addition to credit check and school reports. When Alexis found out that he ordered such check, she stormed the precinct and gave him this speach in the interrogation room, which Beckett was watching through the glass.[/quote]

Yes. And I love what she said to him after and that she felt for him being a father of a teenage girl. She knows exactly what Alexis is going through.

"I believe life takes us where we need to be." – Sasha Alexander
"The key to happiness is good health and a poor memory." – Ingrid Bergman

2:32 pm
March 10, 2010


insomniac

Castle Groupie

posts 36

On the whole, I liked this episode. Glad to see the writers have chosen to continue the path they took with "Vampire Weekend" and have the murderer and motive have nothing to do with the victim's alternative lifestyle. I am, however, slightly bemused by just how Dominant they are allowing Beckett to be in her interactions with Castle. Setting her up for a fall, perhaps? I certainly don't want her that Dominant whenever she and Castle get it together.

I give the writers more props by having the characters' overall reaction to the BDSM as being one of curiosity and occasional humour rather than dismissive or condemning. However, minus points for the gratuitous "photoshoot" shots of the BDSM. Really unnecessary.

And because of the "it's not you; it's her!" I must now ship Beckett/Lady Irina just a little bit.

dmcw said:

I mostly see Alexis making comments about things related to her own life that give Castle inspiration to help solve things.  This isn't so far-fetched, and in fact, is done every week on House when some random comment from someone helps House solve his latest medical mystery.
I think the time Alexis was most involved was in Famous Last Words, and since she was a fan of the victim's music, I didn't find it silly that she had some insight.

I'm hoping they'll reduce the number of Castle Epiphanies soon. While I agree with you on House's luck, that's the shows main conceit – that he's a genius doctor who can suddenly make those connections no one else can. It's not the conceit of Castle – where his partnership with Beckett has (realistically) been portrayed as equal, if not with Beckett having the upper hand on things case-wise. I'm fine with that but I think it'll be entering iffy territory if they start having Castle have these Epiphanies every episode, not least because it makes the professionals look incompetent and narrow-minded.

4:14 pm
March 10, 2010


Moby Dick

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 387

Luck with that one insomniac. Castle Epiphanies are a stock part of the show as much as Beckett in a boatneck top or leather jacket. Sometimes he will say "No,I got nothing" suprising everyone. The good side of it is that they usually work them in cleverly. Plus this was the very first show for the writer as noted in another thread. So kudos for a first timer. Also I believe that most of the time Beckett does have the upper hand,case wise. She is masterful at the murder board and gets her share of epiphanies.It's just part of the show that marks it"Castle"  imhoInnocient_Bystander

"The heart wants what the Heart wants"

4:19 pm
March 10, 2010


Marbs84

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 630

Moby Dick said:

Luck with that one insomniac. Castle Epiphanies are a stock part of the show as much as Beckett in a boatneck top or leather jacket. Sometimes he will say "No,I got nothing" suprising everyone. The good side of it is that they usually work them in cleverly. Plus this was the very first show for the writer as noted in another thread. So kudos for a first timer. Also I believe that most of the time Beckett does have the upper hand,case wise. She is masterful at the murder board and gets her share of epiphanies.It's just part of the show that marks it"Castle"  imho/wp-content/forum-smileys/ib.gif

And isn't Beckett being domineering and controlling what attracts Castle to her? hahaha Like what he said "I would drive, if you let me."

"I believe life takes us where we need to be." – Sasha Alexander
"The key to happiness is good health and a poor memory." – Ingrid Bergman

4:38 pm
March 10, 2010


insomniac

Castle Groupie

posts 36

Moby Dick said:

Luck with that one insomniac. Castle Epiphanies are a stock part of the show as much as Beckett in a boatneck top or leather jacket. Sometimes he will say "No,I got nothing" suprising everyone. The good side of it is that they usually work them in cleverly. Plus this was the very first show for the writer as noted in another thread. So kudos for a first timer. Also I believe that most of the time Beckett does have the upper hand,case wise. She is masterful at the murder board and gets her share of epiphanies.It's just part of the show that marks it"Castle"  imho

I'm not objecting to his having epiphanies – I'm saying that I hope the show doesn't move towards him having all these great moments of insight which solve the case at the expense of making the actual professionals look incompetent and/or clueless. So far, the actual detectives have been allowed to come across as competent. That is one of the show's (many) strengths and I don't want to see it disappear. But of course he has epiphanies and he's useful – Beckett wouldn't have allowed him to trail her around otherwise! ;)

4:39 pm
March 10, 2010


insomniac

Castle Groupie

posts 36

Ack, double post.

6:08 pm
March 10, 2010


Tsurwolf

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 102

Being an Alexis fan myself, it's interesting to read the comment's made by others.

I have a son (32 this year) who's history is as close to Alexis as its not even possable to imagine, he grew up in a family that, though not disfuctional  was certainly a bit wierd.

His mother died of cancer when he was 6, he had to cope with a father who was a shift worker and an older grandmother of german origon.

In all the time he was at school he only had one incident that warrented any sort of disaplinary action, his moral compass is set dead straight, and he has become the gentle person that does me proud.

Alexis is "real" to me, even when she comes out with some of the strange comments and acts a little  wierd, because i can relate to my own experiance with my son.

 

As far a spoilers go: i never watch or read spoilers, i prefer to wait till i can see the show and appreciate the whole experiance, sure there are some things that are impossible ( yah how the hell did that little girl get a dead weight up on those bars ) but generally i dont even notice the incongruities in "Castle" unlike some of the procedral shows like CSI and its offshoots where the inconsistancys are glaring and unavoidable to miss.

 

Thank god this hit and miss thing is allmost over and a regular screening will resume soon, that way i can get my weekly fix of my favorite show.

 

Cheers TBBW

 

ps: don't worry Alexis there are lots of us who love who you are Love2

 

My safe word is "MORE"
Nobody understands me

6:14 pm
March 10, 2010


Nev827

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 3279

Another reason I like Alexis is that I'm tired of teenagers being depicted on TV and in movies as partiers who are only interested in drinking, drugs, sex and weasling their way through school.  Plus, working in politics (don't hurt me!), I run into plenty of over-achieving teenagers and twentysomethings.  There are a lot more kids out there just like her than we think.  At least she doesn't seem to be arrogant and expect special treatment because her dad is famous.

"Make you a deal," she said. "I'll watch my ass, you watch the crowd."

- Nikki Heat in Heat Wave

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6:25 pm
March 10, 2010


belle_lover

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 513

I agree, Nev827. I love how in 214 "The Third Man," she dislikes all the attention she gets because her dad is Most Eligible Bachelor #9. I think it shows that while she knows and appreciates her dad is a famous writer, not all of the perks are good, in her opinion.

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6:41 pm
March 10, 2010


Nev827

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 3279

I also like how level-headed she is.  She's the one in the Castle household who can really tell-it-like-it-is to her Dad.  Martha does keep him grounded, but I don't think Castle really respects her judgment like he does Alexis.  Alexis strikes me as being what Lanie is for Beckett – she's direct, honest and doesn't sugar coat things when necessary.

"Make you a deal," she said. "I'll watch my ass, you watch the crowd."

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8:01 pm
March 10, 2010


Tsurwolf

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 102

A couple of things i found interesting about 2x16

In the dungeon with Mistress Irene, all the males were submissive to some extent, thats hilarious no cahones to be found.

I love Beckett's "zip it ' to Castle with the hood.

This episode has so many twists and turns, its just brilliant even with the little booboo, keep that writer for certain,

 

Two weeks yuck Angry

 

cheers TBBW

My safe word is "MORE"
Nobody understands me

12:36 am
March 11, 2010


Melanieexox

Canada

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 163

Okay, when I rewatched this episode I noticed something was missing or maybe I didn't catch it? but In the promo it has Castle saying that He imagined Beckett dressed as the Mistress lady but in the actual scenes in the dungeon he doesnt say it.

12:52 am
March 11, 2010


olivia

Castle Groupie

posts 49

Melaniee said:

Okay, when I rewatched this episode I noticed something was missing or maybe I didn't catch it? but In the promo it has Castle saying that He imagined Beckett dressed as the Mistress lady but in the actual scenes in the dungeon he doesnt say it.


I noticed that, too! Though no one else had commented on it, so I was wondering if I somehow managed not to hear him say it. 

1:24 am
March 11, 2010


Melanieexox

Canada

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 163

olivia said:

Melaniee said:

Okay, when I rewatched this episode I noticed something was missing or maybe I didn't catch it? but In the promo it has Castle saying that He imagined Beckett dressed as the Mistress lady but in the actual scenes in the dungeon he doesnt say it.


I noticed that, too! Though no one else had commented on it, so I was wondering if I somehow managed not to hear him say it.
 


 

Thank god I'm not the only one. I've watched this episode 5 times maybe and I thought I either kept missing or something. Watching the promo again with him saying that, the clips are from different scenes cut together. Wonder why it didn't make it, woulda been funny!

2:37 am
March 11, 2010


olivia

Castle Groupie

posts 49

Melaniee said:

olivia said:

Melaniee said:

Okay, when I rewatched this episode I noticed something was missing or maybe I didn't catch it? but In the promo it has Castle saying that He imagined Beckett dressed as the Mistress lady but in the actual scenes in the dungeon he doesnt say it.


I noticed that, too! Though no one else had commented on it, so I was wondering if I somehow managed not to hear him say it.

 


 

Thank god I'm not the only one. I've watched this episode 5 times maybe and I thought I either kept missing or something. Watching the promo again with him saying that, the clips are from different scenes cut together. Wonder why it didn't make it, woulda been funny!


I almost wonder if that was a line from a different episode. He didn't say anything like that in "Vampire Weekend" when they were in the costume shop, did he? If not "Vampire Weekend," then maybe they only recorded him saying that to make a more "provocative" promo. 

If not that either, then we should get deleted scenes in the season 2 box set! 

11:49 am
March 11, 2010


dmcw

Illinois

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 3314

insomniac said:

I give the writers more props by having the characters' overall reaction to the BDSM as being one of curiosity and occasional humour rather than dismissive or condemning. However, minus points for the gratuitous "photoshoot" shots of the BDSM. Really unnecessary.

I'm hoping they'll reduce the number of Castle Epiphanies soon. While I agree with you on House's luck, that's the shows main conceit – that he's a genius doctor who can suddenly make those connections no one else can. It's not the conceit of Castle – where his partnership with Beckett has (realistically) been portrayed as equal, if not with Beckett having the upper hand on things case-wise. I'm fine with that but I think it'll be entering iffy territory if they start having Castle have these Epiphanies every episode, not least because it makes the professionals look incompetent and narrow-minded.


I have to agree on the filler shots that were in the episode.  The rest was risque enough, and I felt they were unnecessary. 

I have commented on other threads before that I feel sometimes Castle has a few too many epiphanies.  I understand that he needs to be helpful to stick around, and I get that his creative mind often helps in thinking outside the box, but I don't like it when he figures too many things out on his own, especially those final clues that solve the cases.  Beckett, Esposito, and Ryan are great detectives, and I prefer when it is Beckett who has the big break-throughs.

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12:42 pm
March 11, 2010


Moby Dick

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 387

Ok,I can't stand it any more. WTH,does cheers TBBW mean?

"The heart wants what the Heart wants"

12:43 pm
March 11, 2010


KalliopePL

Warsaw, Poland

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 1924

dmcw said:

insomniac said:

I give the writers more props by having the characters' overall reaction to the BDSM as being one of curiosity and occasional humour rather than dismissive or condemning. However, minus points for the gratuitous "photoshoot" shots of the BDSM. Really unnecessary.

I'm hoping they'll reduce the number of Castle Epiphanies soon. While I agree with you on House's luck, that's the shows main conceit – that he's a genius doctor who can suddenly make those connections no one else can. It's not the conceit of Castle – where his partnership with Beckett has (realistically) been portrayed as equal, if not with Beckett having the upper hand on things case-wise. I'm fine with that but I think it'll be entering iffy territory if they start having Castle have these Epiphanies every episode, not least because it makes the professionals look incompetent and narrow-minded.


I have to agree on the filler shots that were in the episode.  The rest was risque enough, and I felt they were unnecessary.
 

I have commented on other threads before that I feel sometimes Castle has a few too many epiphanies.  I understand that he needs to be helpful to stick around, and I get that his creative mind often helps in thinking outside the box, but I don't like it when he figures too many things out on his own, especially those final clues that solve the cases.  Beckett, Esposito, and Ryan are great detectives, and I prefer when it is Beckett who has the big break-throughs.


 

The same here. Beckett was fine before Castle came on board, so it would be great if the writers remembered about it…

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1:01 pm
March 11, 2010


MathGuy

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 110

Moby Dick said:

Ok,I can't stand it any more. WTH,does cheers TBBW mean?


 

I'm guessing The Big Bad Wolf. Could be something else though. Initials are that way. Smile

I'm working here until a good fast food job opens up!

2:06 pm
March 11, 2010


nalissa2

Hard Core Castle Groupie

posts 1183

Hmm… I'm right there with the Beckett love, but isn't the show callled… uh.. I donno.. CASTLE? Bounce

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