skyisblue1: Thanks. I really wanted to make it known that I love Castle and my being hard on him is because I care. You make a great point that changing has to be about himself as much as for any possible future with Kate. He needs to make a choice if the flings with women is what he really wants or if he wants to try for something more permanent again.

And you made me think of something else that Kate has admitted to him. In Boom she told him that she knows his theories can be off the wall but sometimes they pan out too. And not only taking him in as her only backup but trusting him with a gun and her life shows how much she trusts him to handle himself on the job. I don't think that will become the norm but if the situation comes up again she feels safe taking him as a backup.

curie24 said:

I must be in the minority here, but I do not think that Castle is such a bad guy, nor has he shown Beckett that he is such a playboy.  Granted, that is his image that he likes, (what guy wouldn't ?)  But in this year and a half,  he has only been with his ex-wife,( mother of his child( and an actress he had a crush on who threw herself at him.   That is not exactly sleazy for a divorced, millionaire playboy (Who is not in a relationship!)  He is silly and doesn't bother to hide his faults, checking them out or flirting, but as stated before, he is not in a relationship with Beckett.  She pretends to have boyfriends just for teasing.   I can see hesitating with him, but most of the people on this  discussion seem to think he needs to completely change his character for her and not only is that unrealilstic to expect for a man to do, but unrealistic for Rick Castle to do.  This character was written this way for his fun and his flaws.  But he also shows that when it counts, he can be counted on, over and over. 

Am I alone in thinking this way?

Rick Castle admirers, help!

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Nope, you're not. It baffles me too. They're not in a romantic relationship, they're friends. So I don't understand why Castle is being constantly put down too. It's as if that playboy image is all that he is, all that people allow themselves to see. He's a man with many layers but when push comes to shove he's a guy you can count on and I have no doubt whatsoever that if he makes a commitment, he'll stick to it, come hell or high water. It might take him time to realise what Beckett possibly means to him besides being a friend, so give the guy some slack. He is serious when it matters so why the demand to change??? Castle wouldn't be Castle anymore. You take him the way he is not the way you want him to be to suit your needs or expectations.  

I've enjoyed reading the last couple pages of posts analyzing Castle and Beckett and their behaviors.  Some people seem to be feeling that there is Castle-hate going around, but I don't really see that.  Those who seem upset with Castle seem upset with his behavior here and there…and I've always been told you can love the person  (in this case a character) but hate their behavior at times. 

I think it's a testament to the acting and writing that people feel so passionately about the characters and their relationship.  The writers seem to give us just enough interaction to work with, but still leave enough history/backstory and unseen interactions (like Remys in Third Man) to the imagination to be able to interpret the state of their personalities and relationships in many different ways.

I want to see Castle and Beckett together, but I am enjoying the development of their relationship so much that I am not in a hurry.  What I most want to see preserved is the banter and swordplay between them, so I have been concerned that the other love interests would mess with that, but so far so good.

I agree that Beckett has not given Castle any indication that she is intererested in anything more than friendship/partnership with him, which can't be encouraging to him to lessen any flirting/dating/hooking up behaviors.  She has softened her position over time, though, and definitely doesn't say "never" anymore…her response to anyone asking about them is "no" or "it's complicated" now, although Castle is not generally privvy to those statements.  And in this episode, she did NOT deny to Castle that she was hot for him…and she made it very clear that her issue was not feeling like she could trust him on a romantic level.  I don't blame her for that..they have written her as a "one and done" girl and Castle's flirting and divorces, and self-proclaimed romantic escapades must seem like a risk.

But I don't blame Castle either for the state of their relationship at this point.  He hasn't had much encouragement and I think he isn't ready for a serious relationship with Beckett right now for whatever reason…whether baggage or fear of losing what they have.  I agree with those that indicated he will need to change his relationship behaviors before Beckett will consider taking the risk…but I don't think she'd be interested in him if he changed who he IS…his fun, intelligence, generosity and humor are what challenge her and make her feel alive.

unniw said:

 

 

On another note - a thing has been bugging me… Beckett dated a French guy who was royalty??? There's been no French royalty for centuries, right? Or was there a branch of the family that has survived? French fans (or history buffs) – enlighten me, please!

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lots of descendents of French royalty around – dukes etc.  Just no official throne since the Revolution

jrabbit said:

Contrary to popular opinion guys egos (no matter how big) are very fragile – handle with care. Especially true with "nice guys" 

I believe that the overall impression that Castle has of a possible romantic relationship with Beckett is not likely. A guy can only take NO so many times!! I think that he sees Demon Demming not only as a competitor – because he wants to be with Beckett – but if Beckett decided to hook up with Demon Demming that will cut into Castle's time with her – and they do have fun poking at each other and that would stop if she was in a relationship with someone else.

 

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Agreed – she's said No a zillion times out loud to his face and if that were all there were between them (a) the show wouldn't be half so interesting and (b) he likely would have given up and gone away – at least as far as the chase goes.  

However, track how many times she's in his face (or he in hers) where the electricity between the two everyone can feel/see from the cheap seats where the audience is living – and that includes all their colleagues at the station and his family.  (The classic 'you smell like cherries' scene being only one of these, ditto the scene in this episode when Kate says Madison won't tell on her because of what Kate knows about Madison.) It ain't just what you say with your words kiddies.  

Also – he's used to women falling at his feet – and if he were a truly shallow type – he'd probably have stopped chasing her by now as it would have proved to have been too much trouble.  However, he's not so shallow and the chase/challenge of someone who says no (but clearly is sending mixed signals) is one hell of an aphrodisiac.  So he continues to chase – and she clearly likes the chase too.  Because he's supposed to be a nice guy at heart, the only way i see him giving up the official chase is if KB seems happy with Captain America.  And even then the friendship and excitement of the job are likely to keep him around – esp as we all know the relationship has to be doomed by something eventually.  And who will be around to pick up the pieces?

But one comment i will take issue with – what popular opinion thinks guys' egos aren't very fragile – nice guys or not?  Life would be far easier for many women, particularly strong ones, if one didn't have to tiptoe around the large, but soap bubble thickness, of the male ego.  That Castle seems to survive the number of shots that she gives him is a testament to the strength of his ego, which also means the two might be well matched – because i can't see the Kate Beckett we are shown in the show this far suddenly becoming a clingy 'oh Rick, you are marvelous' type – well, except with respect to Joe Torre.

 

 

jrabbit said:

Here's a "short" I'm in Castle's corner type of post.

In the beginning – he went for the direct approach with asking Beckett to bed – must have worked for him in the past – but will NEVER work with Beckett and he was shot down – NO (no duh!)

next episodes – how can I get her to like me – she's not going to be impressed by my money – so I will "pull her pigtails". We all know that didn't work out so well for him. Not a direct "lets go out and get to know each other" and not a direct "NO", but a no none the less.  But what started happening to Beckett is that she started to loosen her up – she was so uptight to begin with. 

And there was the case (A Chill Runs Through Her Veins — maybe) where he wanted to role play them being married, she said no, he pressed and she relented and imediatly wanted a divorce. Another clear cut NO – not interested in YOU.

Then the infamous opening her mom's murder case – that leads to "I never want to see you again – you are NOT welcome" — another NO

Then some reconciliation — not a no, but for now I will tollerate you (side note: "Beckett, you look different!!" (love that scene))

In Fool Me Once she says that people cannot change (and it's implied – this means you Castle!) – so NO not you

In The Third Man – she goes balistic over the paper mentioning that they are romantically linked – NO, NO, NO and what part of NO don't you understand. Castle should have said that he is interested in her and that he hoped that they could end up there. Later he goes into the typical guy "problem solving mode" (which for some reason is a problem) by setting up a date with bachelorette #3 – so that the media will drop the Castle / Beckett romantically linked angle. Botton line – Beckett said NO again, AND Castle screwed up – but it created that great restaurant scene.

Then again in the Den of Thieves she reiterates that she wants the safe route and that Castle is not safe – NO yet again

Food to Die For – Maddison asks if she is in a relationship with Castle and she says no (I've hot for Demon Demming) even though Castle was not present – still a NO.

 

Contrary to popular opinion guys egos (no matter how big) are very fragile – handle with care. Especially true with "nice guys" 

I believe that the overall impression that Castle has of a possible romantic relationship with Beckett is not likely. A guy can only take NO so many times!! I think that he sees Demon Demming not only as a competitor – because he wants to be with Beckett – but if Beckett decided to hook up with Demon Demming that will cut into Castle's time with her – and they do have fun poking at each other and that would stop if she was in a relationship with someone else.

 

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what about the episodes "tick tick tick" and "boom"? agent shaw profiles castle and beckett's relationship, and in the end beckett tells shaw that "it's complicated"…. is that also a "no", or a "maybe, but not now"? 

starbeeper said:

About that last little exchange between Beckett and Castle — sigh. What great actors.

The vulnerability they both had "not" talking about their own feelings was just spot on and such a heartache to watch.

And as cliche and potentially cheesy as that line was, Nathan delivered it in a way I will never find cringe-worthy.

And Stana and her big, big, vulnerable, honest eyes as that little arrow cut through a few layers in the Beck-Onion.

The heart wants what the heart wants.

<But this heart wants Season 3 to get here FASTER>

Maddison also said Beckett was a "scofflaw". What were the words after that? It was pretty garbled no matter how many times I listened to it.

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 Agreed on that awesome exchange between C/B Starbeeper.

And here's the line…I had to listen dozens of times…and then remembered to check closed captioning on one of the tvs:

"I can't believe the biggest scofflaw at Stuy became a cop"

starbeeper said:

 

Oh wow, thanks dmcw! But what is or where is Stuy??

If it's the name of their school, it's rather odd…? BTJM

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It's short for Stuyvesant High School, and actual school in New York that specializes in mathematics and science.

ok now i really want Maddie to come back..we need to know more about scofflaw Beckett!