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Ep. 24 - Post-Episode Discussion
May 18, 2010
3:02 pm
Sandy (aka newsjunkie)
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For treating Beckett how?  For living his life when she made it clear that she was with another man?

"Shut the front door!" "No time for dirty talk, go get changed."
May 18, 2010
3:02 pm
Van
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Ok Sandy…….

You're saying they ARE in love. Love2   I'm Kidding, I'm Kidding.  You're saying 'in love' develops over time and commitment. I understand that and agree with it…sorta. I was actually referring to the scene where he tells he will not shadow her anymore and they turn in their chairs. 

 

Interesting that Esposito made the difference for Beckett.  She has been told several times by different people that Castle is 'in deep like' and she needs to pay attention.  Why is it that when Esposito says it it puts a fire under her?  I'm thinking what would have happened had he not said anything. Would she have continued her relationship with Demming and had little Demming babies? Or would she have eventually swallowed and told Castle her feelings anyway?   

May 18, 2010
3:09 pm
Leftfield
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Van said:

Ok Sandy…….

You're saying they ARE in love. Love2   I'm Kidding, I'm Kidding.  You're saying 'in love' develops over time and commitment. I understand that and agree with it…sorta. I was actually referring to the scene where he tells he will not shadow her anymore and they turn in their chairs. 

 

Interesting that Esposito made the difference for Beckett.  She has been told several times by different people that Castle is 'in deep like' and she needs to pay attention.  Why is it that when Esposito says it it puts a fire under her?  I'm thinking what would have happened had he not said anything. Would she have continued her relationship with Demming and had little Demming babies? Or would she have eventually swallowed and told Castle her feelings anyway?   


 

I think it was the combination of Esposito's remarks AND the fact that Castle's exit from the precent was imminent.

May 18, 2010
3:13 pm
Jamz
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I waited to make any post to avoid a knee jerk reaction. I'm still working through how I feel about this episode. There were so many things I loved but that ending isn't sitting right with me at the moment.

My favorite part was Esposito and Montgomery giving Beckett the wake up call/nudge she needed and then her whole team getting to watch her heart break at the end. It'll be interesting to see what type of reception he gets from them.

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May 18, 2010
3:24 pm
GhostWriter
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Love and the perception of same is different for different people.  These are adults who started their relationship as adversaries, grew to be partners and (sort of) friends – so it isn't likely we're  talking about that overwhelming obsession that comes with first/young love.  I don't find it surprizing that they don't seem to see what everyone else sees about the two of them.  Remember both of these characters are supposed to be spectacularly good at their jobs – a writer and a cop – and the common skill set for both those professions is ace observational skills – but that means observation of other people and often requires one to put aside your own viewpoint to see the real picture.  Looking in the mirror and seeing what's really in front of you is a very rare skill set, let alone parsing your own emotional needs and seeing those clearly.  Neither of them seem particularly likely to spend a lot of time navel gazing, so they could well be head over heels for each other and not really gotten to the stage of recognizing it.  Anyway give Beckett credit for finally waking up to the fact that Demming wasn't really who she wanted.  

Even if the ending is somewhat cliché  (and point taken to comment above that in truth any ending likely would fall into one or another cliché), it's a heck of a lot better than one of the alternatives – like having Beckett or Castle shot and fading to black with her/his fate unknown.  However, i do expect the shooting situation to happen sometime or other – and it may be the only way to get the two of them to admit (at the same time) what the other means to them.  

In any event, the writers have done what they were supposed to do – we are talking about the show, continue to be engaged, and only a few have sworn to give up the show sometime in the future if it doesn't go where we want it to go.  Personally, i keep swearing off Bones because the B&B non-relationship gets on my nerves, but i continue to watch it, because i like the characters in themselves, the non-relationship storylines and the actors.  I felt the same about Gilmore Girls on and off, ditto House.  I suspect it will be the same for this one as long as it runs.  

Now i REALLY have work to do!  (Geez, i thought YouTube was a time sink!)

May 18, 2010
3:24 pm
hrhighness
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Beckett/Castle relationship issues aside, what I found really notable with this finale is how they tied it up with the season's premiere. I don't know if it's been mentioned here yet as I haven't read all previous posts (yet again), but I like how the Ukrainian kids on a summer exchange program in the US circled back to Beckett's own summer program in Kiev. She may be already in college when she took her trip, while these kids are in HS. Regardless, I'm impressed with how they remembered to bring back an otherwise small detail from the beginning of the season.

 

Then, of course, there's also the return of the roundtable of mystery writers. Plus, Castle going semi-undercover to gather information- from infiltrating a Russian mob-run poker game to meeting a "spy" as the deceased…

 

Awesome. Smile

"When love beckons to you, follow him, though his ways are hard and steep." — Kahlil Gibran, The Prophet
May 18, 2010
3:27 pm
Leftfield
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Jamz said:

I waited to make any post to avoid a knee jerk reaction. I'm still working through how I feel about this episode. There were so many things I loved but that ending isn't sitting right with me at the moment.

My favorite part was Esposito and Montgomery giving Beckett the wake up call/nudge she needed and then her whole team getting to watch her heart break at the end. It'll be interesting to see what type of reception he gets from them.


 

Between the coffee cup "incident" and the angry look on Esposito's face when Gina made her appearance, it wouldn't surprise me to see Esposito give Castle the riot act when he next sees him.

May 18, 2010
3:28 pm
Van
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thumper said:

Leftfield said:

thumper said:

Leftfield said:

 

Castle's invitation to the Hampton's, was that his effort at making a last ditch play for Beckett, pretty poor.  And did he really expect her to accept.  Kate is not going to accept a weekend invite from one man while being involved with another, it's just not something that you do.  

 


 
i can see your POV… but i was thinking despite everything castle had to endure seeing her with demming all the time, he had give it one more shot, try to get beckett away from demming, away from work, away from the precinct in a new setting not surrounded by others where they have to keep their game faces on and hide what needs to be said.
too naive on my part? Embarassed


 
Not at all, but I think that it was an invitation that was doomed to fail.  Castle would have done better to have a frank talk to her about his feelings and that he wanted to spend more time with her.  That, I think would have gotten a better reception from Beckett, or at least gotten her thinking in the right direction.


 
i would like to see that frank talk as well, but that brings us back to my point… there is always someone or something that gets in the way. case in point was the last 5 minutes. i was so surprised beckett was willing to come out in the open and be frank in the bullpen with castle, with everyone witnessing from the conference room… but then sure enough gina comes along and the moment is gone yet again Sad


 

I was sort of relieved that she didn't get it out.  Not because I don't want it to happen but because I want Castle to initiate the disclosure.  He hasn't said crap which aggravates me.  He needs to stop playing around and say something beyond, "you're extraordinary".

May 18, 2010
3:36 pm
castlelover1018
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i liked this episode. I can understand why he asked Gina up. When he said that they were talking like they were old times, i can understand. We didn't hear their conversation. He could have told her why he's not writing. She could have forced him to take her, we don't know. i also, (don't hate me) like how he went with Gina, but i saw it coming. However, i didn't think Gina wasn't as mean as she was put on to be. She seemed kinda nice. yes i know i 'm like the only one, but i didn't find her to be at all menacing or threatening. just that she came and swooped in on Castle…but that's really it…

"Be yourself. Everyone else is already taken."  Obsessed Castle Fan. OCD to the highest degree. High School Student. Oh and loves Castle. did i mention that?
May 18, 2010
3:38 pm
nalissa2
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Van said:


 

I was sort of relieved that she didn't get it out.  Not because I don't want it to happen but because I want Castle to initiate the disclosure.  He hasn't said crap which aggravates me.  He needs to stop playing around and say something beyond, "you're extraordinary".


 

Your comment made me chuckle, mainly because I find it so true. I was hoping he'd step up and say something… instead he runs away. Sad

NYPD. Open the damn door!
May 18, 2010
3:42 pm
He-Touches-Things
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I've been lurking for most of the season now, but finally had to post something.

Wow. What a treat to watch the Castle/Beckett relationship grow – in fits and starts, three steps forward, two back. But I think it is still growing.

I picked up on a few subtle points that no one has commented on. In no particular order:

At the end, Kate's (hopeful) "See you in the fall?" was followed by Rick's rather warm answer. It's like he started to realize that there just might be something there to return to. This reopened the door a crack that Gina seemed to want closed.

I do not see the scene with Gina as a backhanded way of getting back at Kate. Rick may be immature and impulsive, but we have never seen a mean or manipulative Rick Castle. Over the past few episodes I've seen him settle down. He didn't try to bed Madison (in Food to Die For) – he just seemed to enjoy her company in a friendly way.

In the sneak peak with Esposito, I was most taken with Kate's soft, almost whipped, answer to Rick's "I have a poker game to host. See you in the morning." She looked and sounded like she knew she was losing him.

Then there was the long look at the empty chair…

I must wait until Fall, but grudgingly. But with the glimmer of hope that was conveyed with Rick's last look over his shoulder.

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May 18, 2010
3:47 pm
castlelover1018
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He-Touches-Things said:

I've been lurking for most of the season now, but finally had to post something.

Wow. What a treat to watch the Castle/Beckett relationship grow – in fits and starts, three steps forward, two back. But I think it is still growing.

I picked up on a few subtle points that no one has commented on. In no particular order:

At the end, Kate's (hopeful) "See you in the fall?" was followed by Rick's rather warm answer. It's like he started to realize that there just might be something there to return to. This reopened the door a crack that Gina seemed to want closed.

I do not see the scene with Gina as a backhanded way of getting back at Kate. Rick may be immature and impulsive, but we have never seen a mean or manipulative Rick Castle. Over the past few episodes I've seen him settle down. He didn't try to bed Madison (in Food to Die For) – he just seemed to enjoy her company in a friendly way.

In the sneak peak with Esposito, I was most taken with Kate's soft, almost whipped, answer to Rick's "I have a poker game to host. See you in the morning." She looked and sounded like she knew she was losing him.

Then there was the long look at the empty chair…

I must wait until Fall, but grudgingly. But with the glimmer of hope that was conveyed with Rick's last look over his shoulder.


 

Thank you! and welcome smile!!! i really like what you said..

"Be yourself. Everyone else is already taken."  Obsessed Castle Fan. OCD to the highest degree. High School Student. Oh and loves Castle. did i mention that?
May 18, 2010
3:49 pm
Jamz
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Leftfield said:

Between the coffee cup "incident" and the angry look on Esposito's face when Gina made her appearance, it wouldn't surprise me to see Esposito give Castle the riot act when he next sees him.


I sure hope that's the case. It would be fitting to see Esposito give a piece of his mind to Castle much the same way he did with Beckett.

But as some have already said this is all Beckett's fault. She's been too closed off and spoke up too late. Castle has been upfront with his feelings all along and been turned down each time. He hasn't done anything wrong in this relationship. What can Esposito say to him when he hasn't done anything wrong?

One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet and I'm not sure it's a real call back but I found it sweet just the same. I loved when Esposito took Beckett's hand to help her down into the water bank to view the body better. It reminded me when he took her hand to help her down the steps after viewing the body in A Chill Goes Through Her Veins.

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May 18, 2010
4:21 pm
Eps
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 Wow, I'm amazed at all the different opinions and points of view!!  I really enjoy reading them. A lot of people have mentioned things that I never even thought about.

I really enjoyed this episode.  It was funny, a good case and I think we did see growth with both Castle and Beckett's characters albeit, Castle not as much! 

I still haven't figured out how to highlight a previous post, but I feel that Castle probably does think that he has been upfront with Kate about his feelings.  I don't think Kate would feel that way at all.  Anytime he makes any sort of move, it is in a joking manner and Kate has never taken any of his advances seriously.  He's never made a true play for her especially in Kate's opinion.  It's a double-edge sword.  She's such a closed-off person and is hesitant to show any feeing, but he does the same thing…just hides it behind his joking…both different but, obviously,  effective defense mechanisms. 

I think Esposito talking with Castle would be an awesome idea.  I think we would really see a lightbulb go off in Castle's head…

 

I, too, noticed Espo helping Kate down…so sweet.

 

May 18, 2010
4:44 pm
jrabbit
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Jamz said:
 

But as some have already said this is all Beckett's fault. She's been too closed off and spoke up too late. Castle has been upfront with his feelings all along and been turned down each time. He hasn't done anything wrong in this relationship. What can Esposito say to him when he hasn't done anything wrong?
  


 

I do not agree that the fault is totally Beckett's. Granted I wrote the incomplete list of the times Beckett has said "NO" to Castle. Which she has done in the past on a regular basis. However, it takes two to tango. He started out on a direct path with her – in a totally juvenile way  - and he found out that she was not that kind of girl. He then toned down his "advances" towards her – but usually they involved a double meaning (double entendre) – which for him was safe because there is not a direct request and therefor not a direct rejection. Even some of his highest complements to her ("Because you're tall") are veiled and safe.
 

Beckett has come to grips with her feelings towards Castle – not that she knows exactly what they are, but now she knows that they are more than "making a good team". She became very vulnerable when she broke up with Demming and she was willing to make a public declaration (at least visually) to him. Hopefully she does not totally regress to putting up the tough logical exterior – that is easy to hide behind and keeps your emotions safe from being harmed.
 

Now Mr. Castle needs to "Man Up" and let her know what she means to him. How she makes him feel. He needs to become vulnerable towards her – he needs to trust her and himself.

 

and yes I know that it will take the better part of season 3 to accomplish this :(

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