The first, best, most accurate and only Castle fan site that allows you to interact with the Castle cast & crew

Forums

Who's in Chat? [Chat Now]

A A A

Please consider registering
guest

Log In Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search:

— Forum Scope —



— Match —



— Forum Options —




Wildcard usage:
*  matches any number of characters    %  matches exactly one character

Minimum search word length is 4 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

Topic RSS
Is Richard Castle growing meeker by the season?
July 20, 2010
1:51 pm
1892Rojas
Hard Core Castle Groupie
Forum Posts: 209
Member Since:
October 26, 2009
Offline
1
0

Or is he becoming less petulant? I can see they're trying to make him 'mature', although I have my doubts that fully formed adults are capable of that. (A little too late, for my money) But with the change he seemed to have traded likeability for panache. Thoughts?

July 20, 2010
2:21 pm
Leftfield
Hard Core Castle Groupie
Forum Posts: 2492
Member Since:
March 8, 2010
Offline
2
0

I think that he's growing up.  In the beginning of season 1, solving murders and being around Homicide cops was a bit of a lark, a way to get inspired for his writing, and a way to get closer to the girl.  As time as passed I think he has come to a better realization of the consequences of murder, he has seen the victims and their families and what they go through.  He has watched what the police go through to solve the murder.  It's about real people and real life now, not just a story in his head.  I also think that as more and more of Castle is revealed we are seeing the layers to him that were not apparent at the beginning.  He's still pretty goofy and irreverent but with a better balance between that and his serious side.  Anyway that's a few thoughts that I had in answer to your question.  I probably haven't even touched the tip of the iceberg.  I thinks that Castle's much more complicated than you would think at first glance.

July 20, 2010
2:46 pm
1892Rojas
Hard Core Castle Groupie
Forum Posts: 209
Member Since:
October 26, 2009
Offline
3
0

I see the whole 'growing up' arch, but being a parent already, however awful even a mediocre parent can be, and granted that there is a wide variety of them, parenting entails, by its very nature, a minimum of responsibility. Particularly a single, caring parent. So I'm not sure 'growing up' is the right term. It's more like he's understanding this other world, and therefore caring. But since the whole point of family life was to show a caring side, I would argue for a bit of an imbalance there. Maybe. However, I was talking about initiative as well. First season we'd had, in no particular order, besides ordering the cap machine, we'd had the looking up the rug thing, the dialing the prostitute, the tickets for the ball, with dress delivered to boot. Season 2, and correct me if I'm wrong, the man hardly sneezes without checking with the team. And I miss some of that tension, character development be darned. What has replaced all that seems more innocent, childish, making the impression he's mellowed. And however I would want that in real life, I found the former much funnier.

July 20, 2010
3:16 pm
unniw
Hard Core Castle Groupie
Forum Posts: 1738
Member Since:
October 10, 2009
Offline
4
0

Now I see your point, Rojas… it's much more fun when Castle does things behind Beckett's back, and gets caught, and they quarrel about it. But that was back when Beckett didn't trust him, he was just a tag-along writer. Now he's more part of the team, and she listens to him, he can just ask for the pictures and he'll get them. It follows the development of the relationship between them… but looses on the fun part. Actually, the closest in season 2 that springs to mind is the other way around: when Beckett calls for a session with Mistress Venom… without asking "her boyfriend Ricky" first. Bounce

I'm actually looking for an episode (or a two-parter!) where he gets so involved in a case that he does something illegal, and not a small thing either, maybe for the best of reasons, but totally against Beckett's will. That could get a good conflict going…

I wish I knew how to quit you.
July 20, 2010
3:24 pm
1892Rojas
Hard Core Castle Groupie
Forum Posts: 209
Member Since:
October 26, 2009
Offline
5
0

I guess trust may be one thing, but she could still make him jump through hoops to get them – even if just for fun, the way she thought she was going to have fun with him at target practice. And yes, they made the obvious call-back switch/nod to Season 1 on that. And there I grant you that she could be starting to pick up stuff he does, as that seemed the case. I don't know if I want a big messing up in his part, but just the bits of independence that would reasonably infuriate her but would make it difficult for her to discipline him – because he is- bite your lip, Beckett -right. 

And by the way, are we talking about ways to stretch the sexual tension for the good of the show? I think that would be a sure-fire way to do so. No woman, no matter how self-secured, wants to hang around a loose cannon. 

Finally, I'm looking forward for more 2 parters for a simpler reason – I want them to break this whole 'formula' of she calling him, coming to the crime scene, etcetera. It's getting way too predictable for my taste. I am, in fact, looking forward to a case where he can't be there, or that she finds he's out on a book tour, and the man has to do the whole follow-up long distance — hopefully in Europe, so that they can wake each other at very inconvenient hours of the night just to catch up on the details of the case. 

July 20, 2010
3:57 pm
jrabbit
Hard Core Castle Groupie
Forum Posts: 966
Member Since:
March 25, 2010
Offline

I agree with what you are saying about his actions in season one vs. two. He was told to "stay" how many times and didn't? He would weave "wild" stories about the cases and in the process help solve the mystery. He would try to listen into Beckett's phone calls and she would pull his ear to move him away. There was more physical "humor" or action in season one.

BUT, … 

They all have moved beyond that. He realizes that his actions have consequences. The humor has changed tone. Yes he doesn't steel her files anymore. S2 was more about the relationship between him and Beckett. More verbal, probing, seeing what the reaction would be. And he very much has saved her life at least three time: 1) Always buy Retail, 2) Tick, Tick, Tick and 3) Boom. He now thinks that he is there to help solve the murders and to protect her. He fixed her fathers watch (sweet, not funny), was going to order a part to fix something in her kitchen before it blew up, etc.

I don't know what they can do to bring back the "annoying" Castle from season 1 without backtracking on the relationship. Some of the things they did in season 2: Double Down – betting on solving the case, and hiding the paper from Beckett in the Third Man –  ok so that's all I gotLaugh. They have moved on to Double Entendre flirty banter. They also have Castle say something "inappropriate" to annoy  Beckett when they start to get to "lovey dovey"

 

I think that Castle should be / get into BIG trouble – like there is no doubt that he will be killed or at least seriously injured and Beckett saves him. That might "help put them back on equal footing". I'm not saying the mellowing of Castle is because of his saving her, but it is because he cares for her.

July 20, 2010
4:09 pm
jrabbit
Hard Core Castle Groupie
Forum Posts: 966
Member Since:
March 25, 2010
Offline
7
0

1892Rojas said:

Finally, I'm looking forward for more 2 parters for a simpler reason – I want them to break this whole 'formula' of she calling him, coming to the crime scene, etcetera. It's getting way too predictable for my taste. I am, in fact, looking forward to a case where he can't be there, or that she finds he's out on a book tour, and the man has to do the whole follow-up long distance — hopefully in Europe, so that they can wake each other at very inconvenient hours of the night just to catch up on the details of the case. 


I am tired of hearing Beckett say something to the effect: have CSU sweep for prints and fibers, get me the actual time of death when you get back to the morgue and you guys canvas the neighbors, neighborhood, park, work site, etc and have tech pull the SIMM card. Granted it's only 30 seconds, but been there done that oh about 34 times now.

July 20, 2010
5:56 pm
dmcw
Hard Core Castle Groupie
Forum Posts: 3399
Member Since:
January 15, 2010
Offline

1892Rojas said:

 Season 2, and correct me if I'm wrong, the man hardly sneezes without checking with the team. And I miss some of that tension, character development be darned. What has replaced all that seems more innocent, childish, making the impression he's mellowed. And however I would want that in real life, I found the former much funnier.


 

 I do agree with the idea that Castle has mellowed.  And there definitely isn't that physical humor that jrabbit mentioned or the quarrel-based banter of the first season and the first part of the second (there was still some of that in When the Bough Breaks in the fight over him doing more Nikki Heat books). 

But as Leftfield and unniw menioned, there has been a maturing of Castle and the building of trust between Castle and Beckett in season 2…and the adversarial tension between them was bound to suffer as a result. 

I think the Castle team has a real challenge…returing to some charged disagreements between them will certainly keep the sexual tension going, but they can't ignore the progress that has been made in the trusting relationship Castle and Beckett have developed.  However, in many interviews they talk about Castle loving to get under Beckett's skin and drive her crazy, and I miss that energy between them a little.  I would hate for them to lose the contrast between the characters that makes them seem right and fun for each other…he the spontaneous, fun-loving troublemaker, and she the responsible, serious, sensible cop. 

I'm not saying they should ignore character development or not show other sides to each character (and I certainly love Beckett's "fun" side, and I enjoy seeing Castle's serious moments), but for me the heart of their chemistry is that they make each other better because they are different in nature and approach situations differently.

Also, I think that Beckett is attracted to the innapropriate rogue she met…there had to be some change on his part for it to be believeable that she would eventually want a relationship with him, but I'd hate for them to lose the essence of the guy who "makes [her] feel alive" and makes her job more fun.  It will be difficult to achieve, but I hope they find the happy balance somewhere.

 

jrabbit said:

1892Rojas said:

Finally, I'm looking forward for more 2 parters for a simpler reason – I want them to break this whole 'formula' of she calling him, coming to the crime scene, etcetera. It's getting way too predictable for my taste. I am, in fact, looking forward to a case where he can't be there, or that she finds he's out on a book tour, and the man has to do the whole follow-up long distance — hopefully in Europe, so that they can wake each other at very inconvenient hours of the night just to catch up on the details of the case. 


I am tired of hearing Beckett say something to the effect: have CSU sweep for prints and fibers, get me the actual time of death when you get back to the morgue and you guys canvas the neighbors, neighborhood, park, work site, etc and have tech pull the SIMM card. Granted it's only 30 seconds, but been there done that oh about 34 times now.


 

As for these redundant elements of the show, it is a procedural and they ALL do it (CSI, Bones, Law and Order, etc.).  I don't see it changing too much for that reason, although some variety would be nice.  But since "good old fashioned police work" is the basis for the procedure, I expect to see more. 

banner_Castle_dmcw_v4a.jpg Banner by petal of roses; icon by shaded color
July 22, 2010
10:25 am
1892Rojas
Hard Core Castle Groupie
Forum Posts: 209
Member Since:
October 26, 2009
Offline
9
0

1) Repetitions: It's more the dynamics of the scenes themselves. What Beckett should be saying is 'When will you have the prints?' or 'Make sure you also canvass this'. That is, to qualify her suggestions. The other stuff is like asking Esposito if he read the rights of someone he cuffed. I mean, it goes without saying they will be canvassing for prints, etc, etc. The dialogue strain to show her in command and the effect, on me, it's the opposite, it looks like she's got nothing to do and is trying to be relevant to what's happening, and that looks bad, in my eyes. 

 

2) Maturing: Again, it all boils down to, 'do people change'? Sure they do, but not after painfully making the same mistakes. Again and again. Caring more for her, and thus change his behavior, that I do get, and it's believable. But it's less fun. That's one aspect where I'm willing to suspend my disbelief more, as opposed to a NYC detective who is all day on high heels, all the time — do these women exist anymore?. 

3) Pro active: Of course Castle won't be as impish as when he first met Kate, and now it's impossible to go back to that, for practical, continuity reasons. And, by the same token, that rules out Castle getting into big trouble by himself, either. Because now, knowing them, knowing how they risk their lives, how he's considered 'part of the team', he knows he would be dragging them into trouble on purpose. He wouldn't do that now. 

But they should have that in mind in order to come up with a satisfactory alternative, something that rankles Beckett, and Beckett alone. I thought it was so funny when Lainie first met Castle, that she was all charmed by him, and how that created tension with Beckett. I guess the only way to go now is if Beckett mellows a little in deference to Castle, and fights against that impulse, like we saw in the S2 opener, in the first scene in the elevator, when she step back from him because she remembered she was mad at him. I don't know what else would work. 

July 22, 2010
10:41 am
goodie
Hard Core Castle Groupie
Forum Posts: 125
Member Since:
February 28, 2010
Offline
10
0

Talk to the taser Tongue

July 22, 2010
11:17 am
1892Rojas
Hard Core Castle Groupie
Forum Posts: 209
Member Since:
October 26, 2009
Offline
11
0

Agent Shaw took her with her. Or didn't she?

July 22, 2010
11:22 am
Van
Hard Core Castle Groupie
Forum Posts: 203
Member Since:
April 5, 2010
Offline
12
0

I agree with DMCW.  The character development has been great and I loved where Beckett and Castle were in their relationship before Demming. It seems that Castle lost his charm in those few episodes.  I'm sure when the new season starts he will have regained his endearing impulsivity and she will be business as usual.  I also don't think there's much the writers can do about the weekly police dialogue that is unique to cop work.

1892Rojas said:

3) Pro active: Of course Castle won't be as impish as when he first met Kate, and now it's impossible to go back to that, for practical, continuity reasons. And, by the same token, that rules out Castle getting into big trouble by himself, either. Because now, knowing them, knowing how they risk their lives, how he's considered 'part of the team', he knows he would be dragging them into trouble on purpose. He wouldn't do that now. 

But they should have that in mind in order to come up with a satisfactory alternative, something that rankles Beckett, and Beckett alone. I thought it was so funny when Lainie first met Castle, that she was all charmed by him, and how that created tension with Beckett. I guess the only way to go now is if Beckett mellows a little in deference to Castle, and fights against that impulse, like we saw in the S2 opener, in the first scene in the elevator, when she step back from him because she remembered she was mad at him. I don't know what else would work. 


 Castle's presence has huge implications for Beckett both professionally and personally so the writers have a lot to work with in developing their relationship. He can be callled as a witness for the defense and ruin a case she's worked on. He's making millions while the people he's shadowing continue to make the bare minimum so it would be interesting to look at things from that perspective.  He can also get some negative press in his personal life that will have the mayor questioning his decision to keep Castle in the precinct which will have Beckett defending his usefulness on the job.  The possibilities are endless.  

July 22, 2010
11:34 am
1892Rojas
Hard Core Castle Groupie
Forum Posts: 209
Member Since:
October 26, 2009
Offline
13
0

Again, it's not so much the repetition of what they say but how it's done. Esposito and Ryan come in to the scene. Let's say they're rookies. They forget to canvass for bullet casket or prints. Then, sure, Beckett comes in, notices, and tells them, but even then, she would be more like reminding them, than ordering them. She would be saying 'do that' if something new comes up right then and there.

And, correct me if I'm wrong, but she is always brought in to cases that Ryan and Esposito find 'weird', to assist, so I feel her attitude should be more in terms of 'when are you going to have this?' 'when can I look at that?', rather than 'dust for prints'. Duh, like they would have forgotten to do that.

In fact, she is rarely even called on directly by uniforms to a scene or assigned by Montgomery. Let alone stumbling onto a crime scene herself, or have Castle stumble onto a crime, for that matter. I think the Late Shaft was one such exception. I wouldn't mind more of that. 

July 22, 2010
12:18 pm
Van
Hard Core Castle Groupie
Forum Posts: 203
Member Since:
April 5, 2010
Offline
14
0

Okay, I see your point.  I think the dialogue, however demeaning, served as a reminder that she was the lead detective.  I guess they can improve on that.  The problem I had was that Beckett was the lead on all the cases.  I worked with detectives when I graduated from high school and it was my experience that although there was a head detective, all the detectives served as leads on cases depending on the catching order each day.  I get that Beckett and Castle are the headliners but I would like to see Beckett serve as support on a few cases.

September 11, 2010
3:23 pm
davidsmom
Hard Core Castle Groupie
Forum Posts: 304
Member Since:
July 4, 2009
Offline
15
0

I think Castle isn't so much getting meeker as he is getting more human. He's realizing that he cares about Beckett and about his feelings and hers more than he thought.  I think it's quite a rude awakening for him to realize that maybe life isn't all easy and fun – it's also hard work and emotions and love and that's hard to deal with.

Forum Timezone: America/New_York

Most Users Ever Online: 587

Currently Online: She's Armed, lvncastle, ACF, Mikevp1, jerryst316, majster, littleMel45, Piffi, RicardoCastelo, librarian4u, antpertor
90 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

dmcw: 3399

Nev827: 3279

Alie: 3133

Jamz: 2644

Leftfield: 2492

He-Touches-Things: 2358

KalliopePL: 1924

unniw: 1738

MissWanderer: 1640

sarah_darling: 1626

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 685

Members: 8753

Moderators: 2

Admins: 1

Forum Stats:

Groups: 6

Forums: 112

Topics: 3551

Posts: 112349

Newest Members: razzleedazzle, Myms, tbatt247, tcardec, Castlemaniac, aninha21, bela516, nanno2024, rogue17, CastlePedia

Moderators: Admin (4769), addonchat (-1)

Administrators: Admin (4769)